Sunday, April 27, 2008

Following Fairfax?

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Some days, I feel like Fairfax County's little brother. Whenever I, or someone else, want a change to LCPS policy or practice, the question comes up: How does Fairfax do it? When we look at the budget the perennial opening questions are "How much is Fairfax paying its teachers?" and "How much is the Fairfax budget/tax rate changing?" Nobody asks this about Prince William, Faquier or Clark counties who we also share borders with.

Today's question is: how does Fairfax grade its students? And if Fairfax changes its grading policies, should Loudoun do the same? I wrote about this back in February in a post called What Should a B Be? in response to another Washington Post story on the grading and I don't have anything new to add to the coversation today except that I'm interested, I'm paying attention, I'm trying to judge how much interest there is among Loudoun parents.

In reading today's article here was the most fascinating paragraph:

Meetings at McLean High and Langley High each drew more than 100 parents. Meetings are scheduled at Centreville High, Herndon High and South County Secondary in the next few weeks. A presentation in Korean is scheduled for May 2 in Tysons Corner.


LCPS also holds meetings in schools around the County to make them more accessible to parents (the recent meetings about Math Investigations come to mind). I also advocate holding our Board meetings in high schools around Loudoun on occasion but that's a topic for another day.

When reading the paragraph, did you notice that the first two meetings in Fairfax were at Langley and McLean High Schools, the two wealthiest schools in Fairfax? They're next door to each other, they provide no geographic diversity. Why? Is their influence disproportionate due to their wealth? Is their interest in this issue disproportionate due to their wealth?

The other thing that struck me was: Presentations in languages other than English are a fantastic idea. But Korean? Is this of more interest to Korean parents than Latinos who outnumber Koreans dramatically? This fascinates me. Still, it's a good reminder that Spanish is not the only language besides English spoken in our students' homes. Not by a long shot.

Just some thoughts on a Sunday night. Discuss.

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10 comments:

  1. Interesting post. As the father of a middle-schooler (rising freshman), I have to admit it would be easier for ME to keep track of grading on a 10 point scale. On the other hand, I will bet that grading gets LESS lenient on a 10 point scale. Those parents in Fairfax might want to consider that as well. Not to mention, I'll bet that extra credit goes out the window...
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  2. FCPS definitely does not have a John Stevens! Thanks for all your new ideas.
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  3. Michele ZuckermanApr 29, 2008 04:09 PM
    John, don't you think that remark about being Fairfax County's little brother is a bit disingenuous? Everyone knows we look to Fairfax on school issues because of Fairfax's national reputation for excellence. Many of us who moved to Loudoun moved from Fairfax. They're the primary source of competition for our teachers, not Prince William, Faquier, or Clark. While our school system is probaby equal to or better in many respects than theirs, we don't have the reputation they do. Nor do we have some of the extremely attractive programs that Fairfax has had for years like the elementary magnet school foreign language program.

    To answer your question, if Fairfax changes its grading policy, should Loudoun do the same, the answer is a resounding yes. Northern Virginia high school students are already at a disadvantage in getting into Virginia state schools because of the incredible competition and number of highly qualified students in this area. The increasing number of out of state students being accepted by schools like UVA, William and Mary, VA Tech and JMU and the desire by those schools to have a diverse student body, leading them to accept students from other parts of the state whose test scores and GPAs may not be as high makes admission to our state schools increasingly difficult. If Fairfax changes its grading scale to a more lenient (and I think reasonable) one, then we'd have to follow suit in order for our students to be on equal footing with theirs in the college admissions game. In fact, John, it would behoove Loudoun to be proactive on this issue and to conduct our own study, rather than sit back and wait to see what Fairfax is doing.
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  4. I agree that the large percentages of out of state students attending Virginia colleges when qualified residents are turned away is wrong. That said, I don't really think adjusting the grade scale is what is needed here. After all, each year approximately 10% of the graduating class at Potomac Falls has a 4.0 GPA or higher. By lowering the grade scale, we will increase that , but the only thing I see is that it will take away from the students who already earn those grades. Yes, I am the parent of a very hard working child who gets all A's. I have actually had parents tell me that their child gets A's on the tests and quizzes but gets B's because homework is not done or turned in! There were 2 recent stories in the Post regarding students ( from Fairfax Co.) with very high test scores who were turned away by colleges because of grades that didn't match up. No sympathy from me.
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  5. Michele ZuckermanMay 1, 2008 12:18 PM
    What about the equally hard-working child whose average is an84 in a course? Is someone who earns an 84 really a "C" student? Not by most school systems' standards. But let's talk about the disadvantage our kids have when they apply or are considered for academic scholarships. There are a considerable amount of students applying to out-of-state schools, especially now that the competition to get into our Virginia state schools is so tight. Many of those schools award scholarships to students based on some combination of SAT scores and GPA. For example, the University of South Carolina offers academic scholarships to students with a 3.5 GPA and SAT scores above 1200. A student from Montgomery County, MD and a student from Loudoun both apply and are accepted. The students have identical SAT scores of 1250, and the students have taken the exact same courses in their respective high schools and earned the same grades in each course, yet the Montgomery County student has a 3.8 GPA and the Loudoun student has a 3.4 GPA (take a look at the article John refers to - it shows exactly how this can happen). The Montgomery County student gets a scholarship, the Loudoun student doesn't. Is that fair to our students? Of course it isn't. But it happens every day. And it's time for our school system to do something that puts our kids on a more level playing field when it comes to college admissions and scholarships.
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  6. A student's rank plus the SAT scores plus the AP test scores are all more important than a raw GPA score.

    I'd rather my child have a 3.2 GPA and be #10 in a class of 400 than have a 4.0 GPA and be #352.

    Grade inflation is bad because it distorts the information parents use to assess their child's development. If everyone is getting all As how can one tell if they are exceptional in this subject or have just mastered it as expected.

    We have a 5.0 point scale. Lets use the entire range rather than clump everyone between A- and A+
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  7. Michele ZuckermanMay 2, 2008 06:52 AM
    Talk to any college admissions officer and they will tell you that GPA and the difficulty of the course load are the first things they look at, followed by SAT scores. A growing number of high schools no longer even use class rank. But Ed, you miss the point that GPA, along with SAT or ACT test scores, is the determining factor when it comes not only to admissions, but to academic scholarships. And the colleges and organizations that award them don't look at a school system's grading scale to see if everyone is playing on a level field.
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  8. Michele,
    Fix the systems that you think are unfairly using GPA scores without normalizing them for different schools. If this is really happening there are lots of other non-Loudoun children in the same boat.

    If Loudoun were to add .5 to everyone's GPA how would that make things fairer? Everyone else would do the same.

    Here's a real solution: Anyone who thinks the GPA calculation system is unfair should calculate a "fairer" comparison GPA based on some objective formula for their children. Submit that revised GPA along with your rationale with your college and scholarship applications. If your child's SAT scores get you past the cutoff than a live person reads the submission packet and can decide which GPA to use.

    I fear that modifying the grading system in Loudoun will have unintended consequences -- i.e. there will simply be a new and larger group of parents comlaining that they are harmed because their child didn't get into UVA but would have had the sytem not been changed.
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  9. $350 million budget shortfall for Fairfax predicted next year...
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  10. John,
    Another day is here. Please explain why more citizen/School Board meetings are NOT held within school buildings? Particularly with respect to budget talks. Transparent government is what the public wants. Sitting on the polished dais at Education Court does nothing to bolster public support for LCPS initiatives. I hope the reason against more outreach isn't that the flattering camera angles and sound system can't be duplicated in high schools.
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