Thursday, March 12, 2009

Lansdowne vs. AshFarm in Boundary changes

Author:
The LCPS planning staff revealed its recommendations for new secondary boundaries on Tuesday night. Plans were unveiled for Mercer, Stone Hill Middle Schools in the southeast of the county but all of the attention is being given to the Ashburn & Leesburg Middle & High Schools. Boundaries were recommended for eight schools for a swath of land sweeping from Lucketts to south of Leesburg and nearly all the way to the LC Parkway in the east.

With all of that, the focus (judging from email traffic and discussions with citizens and Board members) seems to be on just two areas: Lansdowne and Ashburn Farm. The residents are lobbing rhetorical grenades at each other across Route 7. I'll make an attempt here to understand the disagreement at a very general level.

If Ashburn Farm is kept together at one school (Stone Bridge), Lansdowne has to be assigned to Heritage HS South of Leesburg. If Lansdowne students go to Stone Bridge, Ashburn Farm is split between Stone Bridge, Briar Woods and Broad Run High Schools. Neighborhoods closer to Stone Bridge than Lansdowne will go to a different school.

There are other elements to this, including extra capacity in Leesburg-area High Schools and the opening of a new High School in Ashburn in a few years. I won't get into those now, but they are critical to the question.

This is an even more emotional issue than taxes, rising to the level of the four small western schools that perpetually feel threatened with closure. The emails we receive from both sides make a variety of accusations that aren't worthy of repeating. Few acknowledge the merits of the other's side's argument, or the true complexity of the question.

I wish a previous Board had managed to secure a High School site in Lansdowne.

Public hearings are on March 23rd & 25th, with a School Board meeting in between that also includes public comment time.
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39 comments:

  1. Mr. Stevens, this would not be an issue if MS5 and HS7 hadn't been killed, right before the bond passed for HS7.

    The Mercer boundaries will send Dulles South kids into Ashburn, crowding the Briar Woods cluster, and possibly skewing the cohort survival and feeder numbers--which, when added to the high school numbers already dealing with the north-of-7 kids, will make it look "perfectly logical" to build more in Ashburn.

    If Ashburn schools are serving people who DON'T LIVE in Ashburn, so that Ashburn residents are disrupted from Ashburn schools, then I'd say bite the bullet on the Tuscarora boundary, and get HS7 back on track ASAP.

    HS6 is NOT a viable solution to the larger issue.

    Barbara Munsey
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  2. Mr. Stevens, It is always emotional when we talk about our children, but it is unfortunate that people have to be so nasty. Also, it is unfair to blame the people who bought houses in a neighborhood who had no control over where schools are built. I don't believe any of us had a choice of where to put a school when we bought our homes. No one should punish our children for the failure fo the previous boards to plan. Please help fix the problems with permanent solutions, which in the end, will keep this from happening again. As the Loudoun County Schools CIP says, HS-6 and HS-7 are to releive the overcrowding of Stone Bridge, Briar Woods, and Broad Run. They can be built simultaneously. Please vote for a permanent solution for our children live with.
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  3. Anonymous, as the CIP says, HS7 is primarily to relieve Freedom.

    No intent to be nasty, but a spade is a spade.

    Briar Woods was to relieve Stone Bridge when it was built--it never quite happened, did it?

    Mercer kids will be going to Stone Hill in Ashburn starting this fall, because MS5 is now THREE YEARS overdue.

    Tuscarora is opening, and HS7 has passed the voters in the affirmative.

    Why not best utilize Tuscarora in the north, and get HS7 open in the south, before we blindly throw another school into the middle and keep busing everyone THERE?

    Barbara Munsey
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  4. Mr. Stevens,
    I do not believe the issue is Ashburn vs Lansdowne at all. It is simply a question of whether or not you support the feeder system. What is all too often ignored is the feeder to Stone Bridge is Belmont Ridge, a school in Lansdowne.

    If you support the feeder system you support the staff's plans. If you do not support the feeder then the staff's plans should be modified.

    The Staff's plan simply makes adjustments in expectation of the next move. Any move of Lansdowne West is temporary, only requiring a move back east when the HS6 is built (and requiring a likely Ashburn move South at that time anyway).

    On another point, all schools are Loudoun County Schools.
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  5. Anonymous, if we blindly support the feeder concept in a county that has seen (and will continue to see) as much change as this one has, there would be people bused to Loudoun County high school from all over the county.

    Broad Run USED TO serve everything east of Leesburg.

    All of Dulles South would still be in Farmwell and Broad Run.

    Things change, and it isn't always easy.

    You're right, these are PUBLIC schools.

    No one neighborhood has an ownership claim on any school, even if they proffered the site.

    However, the schools should be distributed as sensibly as possible, and the practice of (when in controversial doubt!) putting everything in or near Ashburn means that the people who LIVE in the Ashburn communities get shifted more than anyone to make new boundaries, while having some of the greatest density of schools.

    Feeders can and do change.

    Occasionally, they MUST.

    Barbara Munsey
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  6. I am new to this area, but have become truly sad about this situation. Has nobody considered Freedom High School? HS7 has to be built first to relieve that issue way before consideration of HS6 (and no I do not live in that area). Also according to the current CIP FY 2010 2014 APPROVED Capital Improvement Program, if nothing changes in 2013 Broad Run will be at 108%, Briar Woods will be at 113%, Stone Bridge will at 153%, and Heritage will be 140%. But based upon using the recommendation of the Planning Staff at that same date of 2013 Broad Run is over by 8%, Briar Woods is over by 533, Stone Bridge is over by 546, Heritage is under capacity by 211 students, Loudoun County is under capacity by 97 students, and the NEW Tuscarora is under by 394 (I use this number because in the Approved Capital Improvement Doc. they say capacity is 1600 and 1800 with the 200 seat capacity - I did use 1600). So the grand total projection of 2013 is Ashburn High Schools over capacity by 1079 students and Leesburg High School under capacity by 702. In these economic times how can we justify allowing 702 seats (already built and available) to remain empty. And if add in the 200 Academy Seat at Tuscarora then the net difference is only 177 seats over. These are not my numbers but all from the Staff's Capital Improvement Doc. and their recommendations presented on March 10th. According to the Capital Improvement Doc. the Tuscarora High School cost 83 million and HS 7 will cost another 83 million. How when there will a net of 177 as of 2013 can another 83 million be spent on a school when we have already 902 seats available? The community of Ashburn (Ashburn Farm in particular) keeps being told that they have to split as a community be sent to several different middle and high schools further from where they live for the greater good of Loudoun County and all its children. If this applies then it needs to apply to all communities in the county and the boundaries need to drawn in accordance to the needs of all the children in the county. If the Planning Staff wants the feeder school concept, then adjust these accordingly with no regard to named communities such as The Broadlands, Lansdowne, Ashburn Farm, Belmont CC ect. These are builder and HOA created boundaries anyway, and since all Loudoun County Property Tax Payers pay the lion’s share of this funding then unless Toll Brothers is going to pick up the bill for HS 6, the children and the taxpayers should be the only consideration in drawing boundaries. Why should my children lose 83 million that can go towards their education on a building that at this time and based on the current available seats in the Leesburg area is unneeded?
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  7. I also believe that a rule needs to be put in place that all students within a mile radius of the school have the option of attending that school (if their address is districted out of that school) and can attend that school, with out exception, as long as they provide their own transportation and make this intention known to LCPS. If due to this issue, a school becomes overcrowded, then the existing attendance boundaries can be revisited. This way the local community, where the school resides, can never say they were excluded from that school.
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  8. Has a HS-6 site been identified/purchased? Perhaps HS-6 could be launched as pilot project under the Public Private Educational Facilities Act. Construction contract pricing is low now and if it, and transportation costs, begin to creep back up, advancing CIP projects envisioned in the next 5+ years would seem prudent.

    Modifying LCPS’ building design such that schools could be constructed in modules, where additions are built as needs require, could also justify a partial expenditure now. If design MUST be the standard over-the-top edu-factory constructed in the standard non-innovative unsustainable fashion (with sprawling campuses larger than any in the nation, high sq ft/student ratios, white boards, etc… are more important than class size, pedestrian accessibility, etc) , LCPS makes it very difficult for themselves to justify advancing any school until existing ones are 150%+ overcapacity.
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  9. #8, same comment cut-and-pasted from LivinginLoco?

    I think you are missing the larger issue: by placing pressure on the Ashburn schools (thereby "forcing" the acceleration of HS6), communities are roiled from the Potomac to Bull Run, $100M is spent before it is needed, and hundreds of empty seats will be left in Leesburg.

    How tight is this budget, and how much worse will next year's be?

    I agree that building schools with their core facilities, and the ability to add classroom wings as more growth occurs (which was briefly the model with some elementary schools in the late 90s, and could perhaps assuage some of the western Loudoun angst over "megaschools" that do not have "rural character") may be a better model to research, but advancing a school for the sake of disrupting nearly every community in Dulles, that leaves seats unused, that we CANNOT AFFORD, is not worth a pilot experiment.

    Barbara Munsey
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  10. sorry, cut and paste at tooconservative.

    As I said, nice idea on mods, but does not address the empty seats, or the cost.

    Will the "free" money of a grant or partnership make those empty seats a good thing, or the boundary problems all okay?

    No.

    B. Munsey
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  11. Ms. Munsey, While you make many excellent points, I have to call you on your statement, "Why not best utilize Tuscarora in the north". Leesburg is hardly the northern part of the County, unless of course you believe Dulles is the center of the universe. Anyone with 1st grade math skills can clearly see Leesburg is the geographic center. Everyone who needs to go the hospital travel to Landsdowne, so it seems reasonable that Landsdowne can travel to Leesburg for school. For that matter, anyone in the County could get to Leesburg in ~30 minutes so having anyone travel there to available seats at Heritage or Tuscarora once Tuscarora opens is very reasonable.

    Totally agree with suggestions:

    1) reevaluate justification of $100M designs on 75 acre sites. "Over-the-top" is an understatement.
    and
    2) 1-mile radius gets a choice, after all, with help from the community to provide escorts if needed, those kids could EASILY WALK!!!!!
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  12. After taking a quick look at some of the boundaries out there, it seems like John needs to find a little extra money in the budget to buy planning staff some of those cheap little compasses (you know the ones - made of flimsey metal that you could poke your neighbor with and those cute little pencils). They would prove pretty handy for drawing a radius around each school as a starting point when redrawing boundaries.
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  13. I'm sorry, anonymous 10:54, but when did I say Dulles was the "center of the universe"?

    Leesburg is not centrally located to Ashburn or Dulles south, which are the areas that will be most affected by an acceleration of HS6, and Tuscarora is north and west of the Ashburn and Dulles schools.

    Lansdowne is certainly closer to Tuscarora than Ashburn Farm is, or Broadlands, or Brambleton.

    Tuscarora is opening, and will have seats available.

    Starting a chain of disruption through Ashburn Farm, to Broadlands and Brambleton, and ending up at HS6 is not the best answer in this budget, especially with a prospect of a worse one to come next year.

    For God's sake, what does the hospital have to do with this?

    Barbara Munsey
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  14. Living next to a high school does not mean that you automatically get to go there. Kids who live across the street from Heritage go to County. Kids who live across from Broad Run go to Stonebridge. (in fact, Ashburn Farm led this effort) All school are LOUDOUN COUNTY schools, not neighborhood schools.
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  15. Anonymous 12:22 Since you seem to know something about history of making boundaries, what moron came up with that asinine policy that kids don't go to the closest school? Are we intentionally trying to spend money we don't have by bussing when we don't need to?

    The SB needs to sharpen their pencils and, once again, try a bit harder to make decisions based on logic not politics.
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  16. So does John just throw out a topic and never respond to any of comments? Yo, what gives?
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  17. Experience has taught me that the best format is to let people discuss in the comments without me interfering. If you want to discuss an issue with me, I welcome you to contact me directly.
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  18. If this is all about the cost of busing, then it should be pointed out that bus ride from Lansdowne to Tuscarora is farther and significantly longer than the ride from Ashburn Farm to Broad Run (where they would walk) or Briar Woods or even to Heritage. The ride to Stone Bridge from Lansdowne takes 6 minutes (with no dangerous intersections), the ride to Tuscarora will take 20 to 25 minutes, wasting a lot of gas and money (not to metion taking buses and student drivers across some very major and dangerous street and intersections). The last I checked buses do go through the Ashburn Farm DNs and take kids to Stone Bridge, so there is no cost savings in buses. Reminder these are Loudoun County schools.
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  19. I bet it takes 6 minutes at three a.m. on a Sunday.

    That sounds like when Ms. McGimsey voted against the Lenah site saying no one from South Riding could walk there, and she personally knew Stone Hill would be fine because it took her ten minutes to drive.

    Aside from the fact that no one from south of 50 who WILL be bused to Ashburn next year will WALK there, we still haven't heard Ms. McGimsey's rationale for the fact that a bus making stops and traveling in rush hour takes over an hour to travel what she supposedly did in ten minutes.

    Again, none of this rhetoric addresses the approximately 1000 unused seats, and the extra $100,000,000 added to what is already a very tight budget.

    Well? Still waiting on that.

    Barbara Munsey
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  20. HS-7 should be built, on schedule. No question. That does not mean that there is not a problem in both Dulles North and Central Loudoun. There are not 1000 extra seat in Central Loudoun there are less, and that is only if you fill every school to capacity which will 1. detroy the feeder system for all of Central Loudoun and Dulles North 2. fill to capacity a brand new school in its first year (Freedom, Briar Wood, and Dominion all opened with significantly less than capacity so as to allow the school to adhust and grow) 3. reduce the ability for flexibilty in Central Loudoun where there is a significant elementary and middle school shortage by filling up every seat in every school in all of Central Loudoun, until of course they are overcapacity.
    I don't know about the traffic in South Riding, and I am sorry if it is bad, but the travel time between Lansdowne and Stone Bridge is about 6 minutes at most any time of day. It is a 4 lane road, with a bridge over Route 7, not many intersections or cars. The travel to Tuscarora is a whole different story.
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  21. If the feeder system were foolproof, then it might be the kind of talisman it seems to be being used for.

    It is not.

    Any number of schools in the county are split-feed, and some collector schools are fed by more than one feeder.

    Again, the straight down Claiborne in 6 minutes doesn't wash; That doesn't account for the bus collecting the kids, and do ALL Lansdowne buses come over to Claiborne to head south?

    If so, then more time must be allowed to collect the kids on the westernmost portion of the community.

    Traffic isn't necessarily bad in South Riding--it is, however, a royal pain on 606 and 659, either of which must be utilized to head north of the airport, unless you want to go east into Fairfax to head north on 28, and then go west after you pass the airport!

    Again, HS6 is not a rosy solution.

    Barbara Munsey
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  22. It's 6.3 miles to Heritage and Tuscarora from Lansdowne Towne Center. It's 4.3 miles to Stone Bridge.

    I wouldn't call that significant.
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  23. HS-6 should not be tied to HS-7. HS-7 has very serious problems of its own that should not delay the construction of HS-6 which is needed for 3 high schools not just one. They are two separate needs that should not be tied to one another.
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  24. Actually, what HS6 should NOT be tied to is Monroe.

    Attempting to reserve seats at Tuscarora for programs that have not been approved or funded yet, when the decision has ALSO not yet been made by the school board to consider dispersal of new Monroe programs (if they are approved and funded), and when the funding for the new Monroe academy has not yet been to the voters, AND attempting to advance HS6 in front of Monroe funding, is ludicrous.

    One or two Board members are trying to do the school board's job, two or three years out in front of the voters to boot.

    By accelerating HS6 to go on the ballot this year (after the Board specifically instructed staff and the superintendent to bring in a budget with NO capital improvements scheduled this year) it sends the message that the Board WILL fund the project.

    It becomes real.

    That will determine the boundaries and may determine the approval and funding of the currently UNFUNDED programs for which seats already funded are attempting to be reserved.

    This sets off a chain that still does not address the fact that there are voter approved schools that have still to be built, and schools ready to open soon that will have unused seats.

    I can understand SOME not wanting to talk about HS7--it's the elephant in the parlor of that massive boundary shift in Dulles district ONLY for the sake of leaving seats empty in Leesburg so another 1800 seat school can be accelerated by two years.

    Barbara Munsey
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  25. There have been numerous comments about potential costs of possible empty seats in Leesburg schools and such a concept is incorrect and misleading. In fact, according to the proposed budget submitted, the per pupil expenditure is defined as follows:

    “Per pupil expenditure is calculated annually using total Operating Budget less adult education, self-funded summer school, and health services; plus the portion of Capital Improvements Program and Capital Asset Replacement budget funded by cash. The total amount is divided by the student enrollment as of September 30 to determine an average per pupil cost for the current fiscal year.”

    This means that per-pupil expenditure quantifies an average cost across existing schools (regardless of size or function), existing grades, and existing students. To use this metric to quantify a cost of unused seats is flat out wrong. Budgeting and/or allocating monies on a per pupil rate relies only on enrolled and/or projected enrolled students. Consequently, unenrolled students and/or empty seats are not relevant in such an equation. Therefore, a school with 1600 students enrolled will have a budget that reflects real costs. Conversely, it makes no sense to quantify additional costs by attempting to assign these costs to seats. In other words, a school operating below capacity does not incur costs for students not attending. I have been through all 350 pages of the proposed budget and there is not one section that describes a per student penalty for a school operating under capacity.

    A per student budgeting scenario does not attribute additional costs to under capacity schools any more than it attributes less costs to over capacity schools (when in fact, a school operating slightly over capacity would in fact reflect a slight cost savings given anticipated economies of scale).

    It is clear that boundary issues are contentious however, Leesburg is not the answer for Ashburn Farms. The middle school feeder system works. I am sorry that students will have to move within Ashburn Farms. However, plans such as those supported by Ashburn Farms residents carry significantly more costs and net student displacements. As such, the boundaries proposed by the school board should be supported.
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  26. Nice long step sideways.

    Tell me, what is the cost to build an 1800 seat school before it is needed, leaving hundreds of brand new seats in an 1800 seat school empty?

    The boundaries do not just displace Ashburn Farm, they will cause ripple displacement all across Dulles.

    The feeder system "works"? Really?

    So it is a completely consistent system, once middle school to one high school, forever and ever amen?

    And if you live in one community you all go to the same middle school, which feeds exclusively into one high school, and right from square one, whole elementaries feed neatly into a designated middle?

    You mean the feeder system works for YOU, therefore that is the argument you choose to make to support disrupting an entire district, and accelerating a $100M school while leaving unused seats in others.

    You're entitled to the opinion, but the feeder argument would hold more water if it were a consistent system.

    Barbara Munsey
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  27. Barbara-

    I am not sure what side step you might be referring to in you comment. I note that while my post was not directed at the H07 v. H06 argument it is on point and relevant to a better understanding of the capacity issue. And while on the capacity issue, specifically, the cost of “leaving hundreds of brand new seats in an 1800 seat school empty?” Well quite simply the cost is zero. It does not cost anything to leave those seats empty. It does not cost money to higher and extra teacher to teach empty seats, it does not cost money to prepare meals for non-existing students sitting in empty seats and it does not cost any money to transport non-existing students to empty seats. So in short, it costs nothing to have extra capacity.

    Now you might ask what are the costs of having a school at excess capacity. According to last years school board numbers 75 percent of our high schools were operating above capacity. The incremental costs associated with these high schools was, guess what, no different than operating the on high school that was below capacity. Why, because the budget is based on enrollment meaning one extra child enrolled, on average, requires an additional 13,000 to go to that specific schools budget. If a school were 100 students over capacity, their budget allocation would reflect that number.

    Yes, at some point you would have diminishing returns such that adding more students actually increases costs but those numbers have yet to be hit and/or projected.

    You are quick to point to claim the disruption of “an entire district” however, please tell me one scenario, because I have looked at every one, where one district is not disrupted. What about the kids going to County that now will be forced to go to Tuscarora, etc. According to Adamo:

    The proposed middle school boundary changes, to be implemented this fall, would affect 272 students. The bulk of those - 266 students - would be bused to Stone Hill Middle School in Ashburn’s Loudoun Valley Estates (adjacent to the proposed HS-6 site) instead of attending Mercer Middle School in Aldie. The six other students, who currently attend Eagle Ridge Middle School would be sent to Farmwell Middle School (both in Ashburn).
    For the high school boundary changes - to be made in fall 2010 - Adamo estimates 274 kids in Ashburn Farm would be sent to Briar Woods High School instead of Stone Bridge High School.

    I do not, repeat not, want an additional school built to accommodate these children. I have not advocated anything of the sort. Instead I do advocate that the boundaries be approved as currently written.
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  28. Barbara-

    I am not sure what side step you might be referring to in you comment. I note that while my post was not directed at the H07 v. H06 argument it is on point and relevant to a better understanding of the capacity issue. And while on the capacity issue, specifically, the cost of “leaving hundreds of brand new seats in an 1800 seat school empty?” Well quite simply the cost is zero. It does not cost anything to leave those seats empty. It does not cost money to higher and extra teacher to teach empty seats, it does not cost money to prepare meals for non-existing students sitting in empty seats and it does not cost any money to transport non-existing students to empty seats. So in short, it costs nothing to have extra capacity.

    Now you might ask what are the costs of having a school at excess capacity. According to last years school board numbers 75 percent of our high schools were operating above capacity. The incremental costs associated with these high schools was, guess what, no different than operating the on high school that was below capacity. Why, because the budget is based on enrollment meaning one extra child enrolled, on average, requires an additional 13,000 to go to that specific schools budget. If a school were 100 students over capacity, their budget allocation would reflect that number.

    Yes, at some point you would have diminishing returns such that adding more students actually increases costs but those numbers have yet to be hit and/or projected.

    You are quick to point to claim the disruption of “an entire district” however, please tell me one scenario, because I have looked at every one, where one district is not disrupted. What about the kids going to County that now will be forced to go to Tuscarora, etc. According to Adamo:

    The proposed middle school boundary changes, to be implemented this fall, would affect 272 students. The bulk of those - 266 students - would be bused to Stone Hill Middle School in Ashburn’s Loudoun Valley Estates (adjacent to the proposed HS-6 site) instead of attending Mercer Middle School in Aldie. The six other students, who currently attend Eagle Ridge Middle School would be sent to Farmwell Middle School (both in Ashburn).
    For the high school boundary changes - to be made in fall 2010 - Adamo estimates 274 kids in Ashburn Farm would be sent to Briar Woods High School instead of Stone Bridge High School.

    I do not, repeat not, want an additional school built to accommodate these children. I have not advocated anything of the sort. Instead I do advocate that the boundaries be approved as currently written.
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  29. While leaving seats empty doesn't have a cost per use by a child not there (yes, you are REALLY sidestepping), BUILDING seats and leaving them empty has a cost, especially if some are advocating BUILDING 1800 MORE seats while seats we paid to BUILD are empty.

    All of Dulles district will be disrupted: part of Ashburn Farm, which straddles the Broad Run/Dulles line, Briar Woods, and down into Dulles South, which will be pumping those middle school kids into the BWHS FEEDER numbers this fall.

    Prematurely advancing HS6, coupled with these ridiculous boundaries, would preemptively decide the switch with HS7 when the school board revisits their CIP in the fall.

    If you want to get down into the weeds, what is the cost in energy to heat the building with the empty seats, to cool it in summer, and so on?

    Let's get back to the one thing not being answered, that will no doubt never be answered:

    We have empty seats under these boundaries, which creates overcrowding in Dulles that will precipitates the necessity for HS6. It is being advocated to move up more seats, in a year when the BoS decreed no capital expenditures.

    The operating budget hasn't finished being cut yet.

    Why is this okay?

    Barbara Munsey
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  30. Barbara-


    To answer your last question first, this is okay because it reflects the best solution.

    These issues, the boundaries and H06, are, independent of one anther. As you know, the school board is voting to approve the boundaries not on funding for H06 over H07. I am sure it is important for a BOS member to be in the fray of each and contentious issues to demonstrate their need however, however you must know that in this case one does not beget the other.

    So allow me to address only the points as they relate to the boundaries. As you point out, “all of Dulles district and… part of Ashburn Farms” will be disrupted. According to Adamo, “the proposed middle school boundary changes, to be implemented this fall, would affect 272 students. The bulk of those - 266 students - would be bused to Stone Hill Middle School in Ashburn’s Loudoun Valley Estates (adjacent to the proposed HS-6 site) instead of attending Mercer Middle School in Aldie. The six other students, who currently attend Eagle Ridge Middle School, would be sent to Farmwell Middle School (both in Ashburn). 
For the high school boundary changes - to be made in fall 2010 - Adamo estimates 274 kids in Ashburn Farm would be sent to Briar Woods High School instead of Stone Bridge High School.”

    So assuming that “all of Dulles district… and Ashburn Farms” is the same as Adamo’s projections we are talking a fraction of the total student population. As I stated, I am sorry that these children are affected however the alternatives simply are not acceptable. The proposed plans advocated by Ashburn Farms displace significantly more kids, increase transportation costs and result in tremendous hardships. I recognize that these are the same issues being argued by AF families so whose voice should be heard? Are AF kids more special? Are Lansdowne kids better? Is one school better than the other? You are a BOS member you tell me… should certain children be given preference? Is one school better than the other? Lansdowne kids should not be given any special pass compared to others and they are not. They are proceeding in the feeder system as established. AF kids have a tough row to hoe, which is clear. I empathize with them and their folks. However, this is the best solution on the table and it should be supported.

    As to your other points, you simply are wrong. Building seats and leaving them empty does not have a cost as long as the building is operating at a breakeven capacity – which they are. There is no cost to heat an empty seat nor is there a cost to cool one. Additionally, as pointed out, since all but one HS operated above capacity last year, and those data can be analyzed, operating above capacity does not change the cost structure.

    The bottom line is this, your constituents are impacted and that is tough. But they are no more or less important to this county than the rest of us. We have been provided with a proposal with winners and losers and you seem to represent those that have been hit the hardest. Again, I feel for them. I, as well as the planning board, do not think a better solution exists. Recognizing that a better solution does not exist makes the current proposal an optimal solution.
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  31. anon 11:40, in one way I hope you are a school board member, and in another way I don't.

    Spending $100M on an as-yet unneeded school when the operating budget still has staffing cuts on the table for existing schools is okay?

    What on earth are you smoking?

    HS6 and the boundaries are NOT separate. Accelerating the school tells the school board that HS6 WILL be funded, so it becomes a logical piece in the boundary process much sooner.

    That preemptively sets the boundaries.

    You are repeating yourself on your wordy talking points, and they still don't wash.

    How many kids in Lansdowne are affected by moving the kids in Dulles, which you call "tough"?

    Lansdowne kids aren't being given a pass, because of the "feeder system", eh?

    I can understand you flogging that bogus point since it is the only one you have, also as stated before.

    I have no constituents, but if you do, god help the rest of the county. We're all supposed to bite it in terms of boundaries, and in the wallet so one community doesn't have to move to open seats.

    Sounds like this little email that's been making the rounds:

    From: Robert Ohneiser
    > >> Date: March 11, 2009 2:38:24 PM EDT
    > >> Subject: RE: Lansdowne Schools
    > >>
    > >> Michael,
    > >> The current LCPS plan keeps feeders intact just as
    > you wished. I need you to
    > >> spread the word in your neighborhood to openly and
    > actively support the plan
    > >> announced last night. Not one student in Lansdowne
    > or Belmont Country Club
    > >> was affected.
    > >> Please help me fight for what is the right
    > decision.
    > >> Regards
    > >> Bob
    > >>

    The feeder system obviously "works" for a few select communities.

    Will it work to shaft others for years? I guess we'll see.

    Can you sign your name in future, or would that be awkward for you?

    Barbara Munsey
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  32. It is beyond appalling that Mr. Onheiser has become a cheerleader and lead strategist for the Lansdowne community, when he represents many more folks than just them. Is this all about self interest, or good governance?

    For Mr. Onheiser to be sending "pump up the volume" emails to one side of a boundary argument is a disgrace.

    Mr. Onheiser certainly has his right to an opinion and to a vote, but he does not have a right to push his views to citizen activists asking them to strongly advocate for his approach.

    I prefer the more impartial "judge of the facts" type of representative, not someone who covertly takes his views out to sympathizers and rallies speakers to show up at school board public comment.

    Additionally, Mr. Onheiser represents more than just Landsdowne and Belmont. He also represents portions of Ashburn Farm. His active advocacy for only part of his district is most disturbing.

    I hope the School Board realizes, Mr. Onheiser's opinion is seriously compromised, as he's not representing the opinions of all his constituents.

    Also SB members, when you hear someone presenting from Lansdown, stop and consider; you may be hearing or reading something written by Mr. Onheiser?

    I wish there was a possibility of forced recusal for misuse of office. This situation would fit the bill.
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  33. Mr. Stevens, thank you for your concern. As you state, responsibility for this mess falls on previous boards that failed to secure a high school site along the route 7 corridor, east of the route 15 bypass and west of 28. Although Tuscarora High may provide some temporary relief, until a high school is built along the route 7 corridor between the route 15 bypass and 28, the influx of students in this corridor will continue to create a domino effect that pushes students to more southerly schools. I urge you to use your power on the school board to find a permanent solution and build a school along the route 7 corridor.
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  34. The point you are missing is that I bought a home in my neighborhood because I wanted my children to attend Stone Bridge High School I would not have moved to this area without that school being my draw. The other point not mentioned anywhere here is why we all don't want our children going to Leesburg or some other outlying area school? It is because they aren't as good or as safe - end of story. This is about buying a home in a neighborhood that is served by a certain school - it affects our children and our home values.
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  35. Anon 3/24 4:48, as long as growth is dynamic, there will be no "certain" schools for years to come.

    Growth in the schools will remain dynamic even if another house is never built: the people IN the houses have younger children, or will have more children.

    Are you for real with that comment about Leesburg not being "good" or "safe"?

    NO PLACE ON EARTH is always 100% safe. NO place.

    Drugs, alcohol, random violence, you name it. Possible anyWHERE, anyTIME, any income group, any housing type, any location, any ANY.

    No wonder you remain "anonymous".

    Barbara Munsey.
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  36. Mr. Stevens...you write as if you're powerless on this.

    STAND UP FOR US! We elected you! Be the politician Ms. Waters is! Advance the agenda FORCE THE OUTCOME.

    Be MORE VOCAL than she'll EVER be.
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  37. Rumor has it that Lori Waters is suggesting that the ISA land house both Monroe and a new HS (HS-6??) to fix the boundary issues.

    Any heard about this?
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  38. The former-ISA land is a large tract that is almost ALL usable (unlike lots of land in Loudoun, particularly Dulles south), and has been discussed for the new Monroe.

    I seem to recall that the new Monroe, back when that property was being discussed/purchased, was supposed to be focused on the TECHNOLOGY aspects of the academy, so it has become new to me to see so much airplay on the vet/equine studies proposal (unless we are talking about horse MRIs?) but that's immaterial at the moment.

    The property would no doubt support more school use than Monroe, but the scheduling of projects is at issue when discussing CIP.

    There are quite a few things in the queue before a fourth Ashburn high school.

    Monroe, other schools at the primary level, the Dulles south hs, and so on.

    At issue in the current boundary is utilization of existing capacity.

    If the boundaries are set in such a way as to leave hundreds of seats vacant in Leesburg, and create artificial overcrowding in Ashburn, then a fourth school will look necessary faster.

    Monroe is currently scheduled to go on the ballot in Nov. 2010, which is delayed from its original proposal. Accelerating a high school to that year is certainly up for discussion, but it means we have the same discussion NEXT year, just with different schools as the players.

    But the land will support multiple public uses.

    Barbara Munsey
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  39. This is an even more emotional issue than taxes, rising to the level of the four small western schools that perpetually feel threatened with closure
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