Western Boundaries:
- Godfrey asked to remove Bergel's name from
- Adamo said Godfrey plan had minor modifications based on transportation input
- Godfrey mentioned zone WL 9.1 (Hillsboro), said she was asking staff some questions but noted overflow problems at current capacity. Adamo noted that there is current overflow at the school and existing boundaries will overcrowd within two years
Leesburg Boundaries:
- Discussion of past promises to Lakes @ Red Rock and River Creek and whether they had been met
- Discussion of diversity vs. enrollment balance
- Possibility of splitting CL05 to allow kids along Old Waterford road to remain in Leesburg while rest of kids go West, due to Old Waterford Road feeding right into Leesburg.
- Board received a confidential briefing of potential sites for next Leesburg-area elementary school
Ashburn Elementary:
- Ohneiser asked lots of questions about overflowing and special permissions
- Ohneiser requested map showing DN39 into
Mercer & Stone Hill Middles:
- DuPree alternative leaves DN14.1 and DN14.2 at Mercer Middle
Ashburn & Leesburg Middles:
- Staff plan moves DN38 to Farmwell to “clean up” the BRHS feed
- DuPree map requests no changes, says 10 families in that area prefer the Briar Wood feed.
High Schools:
- Adamo reported no new requests for maps
- Reed asked for more detailed grandfathering numbers for Juniors & Seniors
- Reed proposal will remove 10.2 and 10.1 from
Reed proposed moving next Tuesday's meeting (at which we will vote) 30 minutes early to accommodate public speakers.
Hatrick emphasized need to pass ES & MS boundaries immediately to allow staff to execute administrative actions.
John,
ReplyDeleteIt seems that the staff plan in conjunction with other optimizations of existing resources
would easily hold us (at least) until HS6 arrives. HS6 will require another boundary adjustment.
Why not adopt the staff plan with the some of the following optimizations so that
1) minimal changes can be made now
2) no students are moved out of local schools or away from their friends
3) all of the current changes could be permanent and
4) the changes made once HS6 arrives could also be permanent.
Possible optimizations of existing resources:
1) use trailers (which Loudoun already owns)
2) build permanent additions to existing schools
3) buy modular education buildings designed for this purpose from any number of builders (see google)
4) consolidate low enrollment classes
5) relocation of part-time programs from high enrollment schools to schools with lower enrollment
6) elimination of "sports" exceptions
These things wouldn't lower the quality of education and would just be wise in these uncertain economic times. Since we wouldn't be changing much, we also wouldn't be risking much.
Do you have any thoughts on this?
I am currently wrapped up in analysis, taking input as it comes in. I will share my thoughts fully when I cast my vote.
ReplyDeleteI live in River Creek, so I have no dog in the fight about HS. I don't care where my kids go, and that includes elementary schools.
ReplyDeleteWith regards to the HS situation, if you do change boundaries, please try to make the boundaries contiguous. For example, right now, we drive by 2 elementary schools to get to the one we go to now (Reid). I think that is silly. While I was for this when it was proposed as it ensured some stability for our neighborhood, it also made Reid a very socioeconomically unbalanced school. I, personally, would prefer some diversity for my kids. I realize that this makes me a persona non grata in my community ;-)
If you make the HS boundaries non contiguous, sending Lansdowne to THS, with non of the communities abutting them going there, they are VERY isolated. Think of all of the driving teenagers will be doing just to see their friends on the OTHER side of Leesburg.
This is just some food for thought and so that you know that not all of the RC people want to keep attending the private elementary school that we don't have to pay for (other than taxes of course).
Ashburn has moved in the past, and I understand their reluctance to change. Most communities would however fight FOR a change that kept their middle-schoolers together through high school rather than rip them apart. Because of this, I'm having trouble understanding the degree of resistance to this particular change. Perhaps if the initial idea floated publicly by the board had been to either take the Eagle Ridge kids to Tuscorara or keep them together at Briar Woods we wouldn't be in this position as Ashburn Farm would be in strong support of staying at Briar Woods, there would be little change in DN, life would be good.
ReplyDeleteI think not accelerating the HS6 build schedule makes the staff plan that much more attractive because it allows us to be conservative and only make small permanent moves now. This is low cost and low impact.
John,
ReplyDelete(I think) Dr Hatrick mentioned at a previous board meeting that he ran into an "activist" on the losing side of
a school board decision after the decision was made. The activist told him that even though
he lost his fight, he couldn't argue with the logic of the school board ruling on the matter.
This is the sort of feeling all communities need at the end of this process. It should just make sense.
Re: Leesburg Elementary boundaries
ReplyDeleteAre we solving a problem or creating one? The staff recommends no changes and now at the 11th hour Board Member Reed wants to move or change 7 zones ? This after the school board proved there was NO connection to free lunches or ESL Students and test scores? It sounds like a few parents or PTA member s from Catoctin & Balls Bluff want everyone to pay for the fact they either don’t care for disadvantaged children or do a poor job of fund raising. Maybe they should reach out to other successful PTAs and get ideas, without disrupting the lives of hundreds of elementary students.
RC resident here again, and I've looked at the proposed elementary boundaries. I don't know if this has been noted, but kids from 2 of the zones will be going to schools in isolation. Red Rocks (CL17) kids will be the only kids going to Balls Bluff that continue onto Harper Park and RC (CL 12) kids will the the only kids that go to Reid that continue onto Harper Park. So essentially, rising 6th graders in these 2 zones will know only the other kids in their OWN neighborhood in their new (to them) scary middle school. As it is currently, Reid splits and most go to Smarts Mill, while we and RR go to Harper Park.
ReplyDeleteAgain, I don't care where my kids go, just think that isolating kids is wrong. Just like isolating Lansdowne is wrong. Mr. Reed and the school board can do better and get more creative.
I heard member Reed the other night say something like "Lansdowne wants to stay together and this plan does that...". Would any community want to "stay together" as a remote island kicked out of their district temporarily and then back later to well...we don't actually know where? Does anybody think this was the Lansdowne message? Anybody? Would Ashburn or any other community want this?
ReplyDeleteMember Reed is driving the process to kick Lansdowne out of DN temporarily while he simultaneously claims he won't vote on "his" plan...huh?. A "won't vote" is just another name for a "no vote". The whole thing smells.
It's unfortunate that there aren't more members on the board like member Stevens. I think if that were the case, logical thought and long-term plans would win out over political allegiances and bully pulpits.
As a school board member, who would you rather face after this process
ReplyDeleteis over:
a) an Ashburn Farm resident whose child was kept together permanently with his entire graduating class from Eagle Ridge and all of his friends and neighbors
or
b) a Lansdowne resident whose child was moved away from all of his friends except a handful of other Lansdowne kids temporarily to a location many neighborhoods away only to move again later to some other site (either back to Stone Bridge or to somewhere we don't even know yet)
And imagine how difficult it would be if as a parent, you lived in Lansdowne, had one child in Tuscorora and then the boundaries changed back (as we know they will) and your younger child then goes to (maybe) HS6 located in Loudoun Valley Estates. Think how great it would be to have after school activites on the same day at both schools, how would that work? For Ashburn, the staff plan would put an older and younger kid even closer than they are now since Briar Woods and Eagle Ridge are closer than Eagle Ridge and Stone Bridge so even that makes sense.
A wise option at this point given the political winds would be to do nothing at all for now. Then, in a year or two when the elementary, middle schools and HS6 all gel, make one common-sense permanent change that creates contiguous zones and local schools for every DN hoa and keeps the students together from elem->middle->high school to the extent possible.
ReplyDeleteNobody would object to this option.
I'm an Ashburn Farm resident and my son would not be kept with his entire graduating class from Eagle Ridge. As a matter of fact, he moved from Belmont Ridge to Eagle Ridge in 8th grade and under this plan would attend Stone Bridge for 2 years and Briar Woods for 2 years. Please explain how this is fair to him. Also, please explain how the middle to high school feeder system works when there are more middle schools than high schools in Loudoun County. This will be the case through at least 2017, according to the CIP just approved.
ReplyDeleteI've heard Dr. Adamo say that moving Lansdowne students to Tuscarora was a temporary solution. Now he's saying the move of 3 sections in Ashburn Farm to Briar Woods is an interim solution.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the difference?
Why is it okay to choose one over the other?
It seems to me that that Ashburn Farm student would still know a lot of children at either Briar Woods or Stone Bridge while remaining in a contiguous school zone. The Lansdowne children would only stay with a handful of classmates and be sent to a school with children they have never seen before and don't live near. Which is more "fair"? My Lansdowne child would much rather attend Briar Woods than Tuscarora - at least he knows a lot of children at Briar Woods since, like it or not, Lansdowne participates in Ashburn sports teams/clubs/etc.
ReplyDeleteSo I guess it's okay for us to move again and then probably again when HS-6 opens. What a wonderful feeder system we've got. Let's force kids into the system instead of letting them grow into it. We don't care how many times they move, we don't care if they have to move high schools right in the middle of their career - let's save the feeder system!!!!
ReplyDeleteI didn't think that the Briar Woods solution was a temporary solution at all. I believe that was permanent.
ReplyDeleteThe choosing here isn't choosing between Ashburn and Lansdowne, it's choosing between keeping Eagle Ridge students together at another Ashburn local school or choosing to isolate an entire community at a non-local school for a few years only to wisk them off to another undetermined school a few years later. This makes no sense and it isn't fair.
Of those two particular choices, you may not want to be on the receiving end of either choice BUT the Eagle Ridge option (staff plan) certainly impacts less children in a less profound way than the Reed plan does.
If Ashburn Eagle Ridge parents had to choose between A) sending their kids A) go to a local school other than Stone Bridge with all of their classmates from Eagle Ridge or B) go with a few of their classmates to Tuscorora in Leesburg...which do you think they would prefer or think was fair? If it's unfair for Ashburn, it's unfair for Lansdowne too.
The feeder system at least maintains student communities. If an hoa is divided but all of the students that constitute the school community stay together, so what? If you're involved in your child's life with activities etc, you ARE interacting with the parents of your kid's friends that are part of that same community. So, the important community is the "school community", not the neighborhood.
ReplyDeleteYes, if the common-sense long-term county plan at build out requires another move for HS6, then that's what will have to happen, unless we want to keep finding neighborhoods to throw off the island. The long term plans with southward movement have been in place for years...why the surprise now?
Ashburn's strategy for keeping Stone Bridge to themselves included not supporting HS6 being moved up in the build schedule. This wasn't a long-term "what's best for DN" effort but instead, a short-sighted ploy to derail the current boundary process in their favor. This may backfire. If HS6 had been moved up, there would have only been one move required to align permanent boundaries for Lansdowne, Belmont CC and Ashburn Farm, now, there will need to be at least two.
Also, the uncertainty of HS6 and it's late arrival in these tough times, make conservative plans like the staff plan more attractive, not less.
We should use our resources wisely now, follow the staff plan with a few tweaks in the interim and do one big redrawing of the boundaries that would be permanent once HS6 is here.
This is what makes sense for the entire DN region.
The one thing we ALL need to do is demand that the School Board fix the feeder system. There needs to be an equal number of middle schools and high schools. Until that happens, these arguments will continue to happen. And unfortunately, whatever side of the feeder argument you are on, is what you are going to support.
ReplyDeleteI don't buy the HS6 argument - from my perspective it was all just a ploy to guarantee that Asburn Farm would move out.
I'm sure the Lansdowne parents would feel the same way Ashburn Farm parents feel if the planning commission decided to move Lansdowne students out of Belmont Ridge for a reason that was not part of any school board policy.
My argument is not with Lansdowne. It's with the planning commission and their not following rules. Their implementation of the feeder system is not flexible enough under this plan to allow students to finish at the high school they started at.
If this southern shift has been underway for years, then why were the students in Ashburn Farm allowed to start at Stone Bridge? I'm sure most of us would have chosen to send our kids to Briar Woods to start high school - had the planning commission been up front an open with us and given us a choice. Now, we don't have a choice. I'm sure you'd feel the same way if you were in our situation of constantly being moved to different schools. It gets old really quick.
one other point, the southern shift also seems to be a short term solution. Seems to me the long term solution is to start planning better and have the schools located or as closely located as possible to the students they would be serving.
ReplyDeleteI think the residents of Loudoun County deserve as much. We ALL pay our taxes and should have the reasonable expecation of having our kids attend the schools they live closest to.
You're not talking about "fixing" the feeder system; you're just talking about using it everywhere
ReplyDeleteby having the same number of schools at every level. This would of course be ideal. Even in
the absence of this sort of complete alignment, you still get the full benefit of shared experiences
for all of the students that do use the feeder system.
The school board members, teachers, staff etc all spoke to the educational virtues of the feeder system
for both students and teaching staff. There doesn't really seem to be much academic debate about whether
the feeder system of keeping kids together through their most important years is a "good" idea or not.
The arguments against the feeder system are really just arguments against "change"
for a community that feels as though it has been changed too many times in the past to justify any
more changes. This too should be a consideration.
It seems that our choices are risking the possible ill effects of keeping Eagle Ridge kids together through
high school by implementing the "feeder system" for Eagle Ridge OR kicking an entire community out
of Dulles North temporarily and then kicking them somewhere else a few years later.
When capacity is available; students can start anywhere they want. And why wouldn't you let Ashburn Farm
attend Stone Bridge when there were lots of seats empty? I think Broad Run once held all students
for miles around...and then we started to grow. As we grow and prosper, lines being redrawn are inevitable.
I don't think that most of Ashburn would have attended Briar Woods for a minute. Lansdowne on the other
hand woud attend Briar Woods in a heartbeat. It close, it has kids from nearby neighborhoods and it's just
as good a school as Stone Bridge. This hasn't ever been an option though.
The school board politics, driven by member Reed, prevented any middle ground options. This lack of
good options has prevented a "sharing of the bleeding" or coming together on an option that made all of
the communities feel like one.
HS6 changes could have been done this time around had Ashburn Farm not fought
so hard against it. If so, we would have all had permanent options tomorrow night.
The real question is - why didn't the school system see this coming and plan for it better???
ReplyDeleteWhy is everything with this School Board a last minute emergency???
LI - that is what I'm talking about.
ReplyDeleteAnon - I am talking about "fixing" the feeder system. Currently, the planning commission is trying to use it everywhere. Dr. Adamo stated at the meeting on Apr 16 they took the middle school boundaries and just overlaid them over the high school boundaries. This is the problem: until you have equal numbers of middle and high schools, there will always be a split feed. So, the kids that are in the split feed don't get the benefits of the feeder system. How is it decided which school gets to be the split feed?
With this plan, Eagle Ridge will still be a split feed school. So will Stone Hill.
SB member Reed is not the only person playing politics. There are other SB members playing too as well as BOS members. Until the citizens of Loudoun stand up and demand equality, we will always be neighbors against neighbors because we are all trying to protect our kids.
I wasn't speaking for all of Ashburn - it is a very big place. i was only speaking about the 3 sections in Ashburn Farm affected - not speaking for them mind you. I know I would have chosen to send my son to BW had we known this was coming and I know several other people that would have to.
Also, if you look at the numbers of Juniors affected by this, it is only 62 in those 3 sections. Not exactly breaking the bank here. Why can't they finish at Stone Bridge?
That's all I'm saying is the planning commission doesn't look at these things - only the feeder system, which in my opinion needs to be fixed.
more fuel to the fire. My son has a friend in his 5th grade class at Sanders Corner that lives on the north side of Hay Rd - not even in Sanders' current attendance zone. He also has kids in his class that will go to Belmont Ridge next year, and then will get switched to Eagle Ridge in 2012, go to Stone Bridge for their freshman year and then get switched to either Briar Woods or HS6 when it opens in 2014.
ReplyDeleteYou can see that the numbers the planning commission is telling you now only affects this coming move. They don't talk about the numbers of students that will get moved in 2012 and then 2014. So, if that all happens, I believe that would take Ashburn Farm up to 21 moves/boundary changes. How fair is that?
They should move those kids now to Eagle Ridge and then directly to Briar Woods. They shouldn't have to keep moving when we know where they will end up.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how you re-balance the numbers of kids between the schools as existing schools fill up and new ones are built in adjacent communities without re-drawing boundary lines. Ashburn has 3 high schools and has HS6 being built to the south too. Ashburn and all of the surrounding communities must share these schools and no community owns the schools.
ReplyDeleteShould we end up with ridiculous boundaries and school zones for communities in the same planning district as Ashburn because we don't want to follow a reasonable long term plan? We can't punish one community arbitrarily because another community feels that it didn't get a fair shake in the past.
The long term plan should be stated and understood and held to by the school board. Even if this isn't cast in stone, it could at least be understood that "boundaries will be redrawn southward as new schools come on line" for instance. (I actually thought that this was the case since the HS6 build site has been on the books for 5 years) This has either not been done by the school board or not communicated well to the public or perhaps ignored.
Dr Hatrick said it again at the last meeting, "nobody has a permanent school". That doesn't seem like such a vague message. That isn't what I have such a problem with, it's the temporary political moves outside our district that isolate a single community rather than the incremental shifts towards the new school build sites that we know to be reality.
What I think everybody could come together on would be such a disclosure of what the future holds and the certainty of that knowledge. Something else that everybody would agree on would be to let all students that start at a given high school finish there. These two things would go a long ways towards creating the belief that the county has some compassion towards the kids displaced mid-stream.
I agree with anon about not displacing kids during high school.
ReplyDeleteI actually overheard two Belmont Ridge CC moms say "kids are resilient, they'll be fine" regarding the prospect of Lansdowne kids moving to Tuscorara. How arrogant and insensitive and stupid of somebody not even affected by the boundary change to judge the resiliency of somebody else's kids that might be affected? If I lived in Belmont CC at this point, I'd be keeping quiet and realizing how lucky I was.
You can bet that those Belmont moms would feel completely differently if they were one of the neighborhoods being considered for banishment or even consolidation.
I agree with your comment about the long term plan being communicated.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I disagree about the southern shift. A southern shift of students affects a far greater number of students than people realize. Say we shift 700 students from AF to BWHS. That means that 700 students in Broadlands that were attending BWHS now have to go to HS6. That is 1400 students affected. Now what happens when Brambleton and Loudoun Valley Estates finishes construction? When that happens and HS6 is full, do we build another high school and shift AF back to Stone Bridge?
You are right that not one community can claim a school. AF can't, Lansdowne can't. What I don't agree with is bussing students 4 times as far to school as the one they are closest to. My kids can walk to Stone Bridge. My 9th grader has walked home from school many times. He has stayed after for various meetings, didn't want to wait for the activity bus and walked home with his friends. Friends that live across AF Parkway and who he would be split from should he go to BWHS.
Dr Hatrick also said that students form friendships based on similar interests, band, sports, academic clubs, etc. It is not limited to just those in his middle school.
You are right, schools form communities. But we sure don't feel like a part of any community. Spend 2 years at one MS, then 1 year at another MS. Then spend 2 years at one HS and then 2 years at another HS.
Mr Reed is not the only person doing political moves. His plan may not be perfect, but at least he's putting some effort into thinking of how to solve the problem. He is also proposing to move HS6 from LVE to closer to the Rte 7 corridor. Let's look at that option and see where it leads us. We need people to look outside the box and come up with ideas. Let's not just keep shoving the feeder system - that just leads to boundary changes every 2-3 years.
We had one SB member tell us that the one way we could ensure AF would stay at Stone Bridge was to tell the SB to remove all the school buses from our community. How realistic is that? And then having the BOS tell the SB that there would be no new capital projects in FY10, and then one BOS member saying, hey, let's move up the building of HS6. If that's not a political move...