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A commenter asked:
John,I made extensive remarks (about 11 minutes) about this on Tuesday night, they start at about the 5:13 mark on the webcast. I'll try to post the audio here later tonight. For the sake of clarity, here are my thoughts:
Is there any reason we wouldn't keep Ashburn and Lansdowne together at Stone Bridge because of their shared schools in each other's neighborhoods? How can we acknowledge the virtues of the feeder system and also support dismantling it when other options exist?
I would hope that no community would have to leave SBHS but it seems like if a community has to move to a new school, you wouldn't want it to be the one that breaks the feeder system and houses a middle school used by Ashburn.
What are your thoughts?
- There isn't room at Stone Bridge for Lansdowne, Belmont and Ashburn Farm.* Too many kids. To the best of my knowledge, this is a fact accepted by all sides.
- Kids in Leesburg and the surrounding area will fill Leesburg-area High Schools (County, Heritage, Tuscarora) in 4-5 years. To the best of my knowledge, this is a fact accepted by all sides.
- Therefore, Lansdowne cannot have a permanent home in Leesburg, at either Tuscarora or Heritage or split between the two. To the best of my knowledge, this is a fact accepted by all sides.
- Therefore, if we were to accept a plan that sends Lansdowne to the Leesburg schools temporarily, we need to think ahead to where Lansdowne will attend once the Leesburg-area kids fill up those high schools.
- There are four high schools within range, three existing and one planned to open in 2014. In reverse proximity order, they are the planned HS-6, Briar Woods, Broad Run and Stone Bridge.*
- I do not support assigning Lansdowne to HS-6 because it is the farthest school of the four, which violates the proximity principle.
- Similarly, it does not make long-term sense for Lansdowne kids to attend the 3rd farthest school, Briar Woods.
- To send Lansdowne to Broad Run would cause dramatic disruption to an otherwise stable high school community, something everyone values. Broad Run has no capacity, so Lansdowne would displace about half the Broad Run students, creating a different "southern slide" to HS-6 and violating the stability principle.
- Stone Bridge is the remaining school in the group. It is the closest, and is the school that Lansdowne students currently attend. It is the only one of the four that makes sense to me, indeed the only one of the four* that anyone has suggested is a viable permanent option.
- If Lansdowne's permanent home is to be Stone Bridge, it violates the stability principle to move them out now only to move them back in later.
- We have already established that if Ashburn Farm attends Stone Bridge, Lansdowne cannot.
- Therefore, if Lansdowne attends Stone Bridge, Ashburn Farm (or Belmont, which lies between these two neighborhoods) must be assigned somewhere else. Ashburn Farm to Briar Woods is the logical choice according to the principles of stability and proximity. I have not heard anyone argue for a different alternative such as HS-6 or Broad Run.
- The staff plan moves some parts of Ashburn Farm to Briar Woods now, anticipating that the rest of the community will move there in 2014 when HS-6 opens and relieves capacity from Briar Woods.
There are many other factors that many people are debating: Past Ashburn Farm moves, contiguous communities, travel distance, walkability, dangerous roads, overcrowding, fairness, the feeder system. These are all legitimate concerns.
Update:
It would have been better for me to have written that every neighborhood needs a permanent home. That was my meaning. Under the other proposals, there remains one community without a permanent home, and that is Lansdowne. Therefore the basis of my opposition to them is the lack of that permanent home. The staff recommendation moves toward permanent homes for all neighborhoods, albeit not the permanent home that all neighborhoods want. I would not have voted for a plan that didn't give Ashburn Farm a permanent home either. I created matrices of the major proposals against all of the possible future homes, at the planning zone level. The staff plan was the only one that did not move any planning zones twice. I have no personal affinity or loyalty to any of the neighborhoods in question here.
There are a hundred different numbers to argue over, but I believe my logic over the long term can be understood without the numbers.
You may also want to listen to Mr. Marshall's very good remarks about how he had decided to support the staff plan, starting at the 5:39 mark. Several minutes later he abstained from the vote on the staff plan, and it failed.
151 Comments:
"In my mind though, the question of Lansdowne's permanent home overrides all of them."
Okay, so once again the fate of Lansdowne trumps the fate of Ashburn Farm. At least your true colors are coming out.
I have a question? What about the Ashburn Farm kids permanent home, as they will be slowly trickling into Briar Woods over the next few years, displacing the Brambleton kids to HS6. Lansdowne gets a permanent home while hundreds and hundreds of other kids and several other neighborhoods get displaced. Smart... Brilliant, really.
It would have been better for me to have written that every neighborhood needs a permanent home. I have no personal affinity or loyalty to any of the neighborhoods in question here. Under the other proposals, there remains one community without a permanent home, and that is Lansdowne. Therefore the basis of my opposition to them is the lack of that permanent home. The staff recommendation moves toward permanent homes for all neighborhoods, albeit not the permanent home that all neighborhoods want. I would not have voted for a plan that didn't give Ashburn farm a permanent home either. I created matrices of the major proposals against all of the possible future homes, at the planning zone level. The staff plan was the only one that did not move any planning zones twice.
Who is HS 6 being built for? (I ask this honestly, not sarcastically.) Because it sounds like it's going to be filled by bumping kids southward from other neighborhoods. If Lansdowne is the neighborhood without a permanent school home, then why on earth are we building HS 6 so far south?
And if HS 6 is being built for the neighborhoods in its immediate vicinity, then won't it get filled at some point too? Requiring kids to be bumped again? And at that point, we are still short a school?
Seems like we are approaching the point where we run out of Band Aids to keep putting on this thing every year.
Hs6 will be "justified" by filling it from the south as well.
A significant percentage of the surge from Dulles South was voted into the future HS6 cluster the other night as part of the MS boundaries.
All it takes is for NO home to be found for politically delayed HS7, and HS6 will be the magic solution for everybody!
Except that it would move everyone out of their community from Hay road down to about Braddock.
Keep HS7 as close to on track as possible, and at least you won't have half od Dulles South factoring into the Ashburn equation as well.
Barbara Munsey
hummm.. push further and further south? I don't really think that Fairfax wants us! Go west, young Loudoun.
The staff plan doesn't move ~300 kids from Ashburn farm, it has the potential of moving THOUSANDS from everywhere!
No one asked for loyality John, just some common sense, what other neighborhood in Loudoun is split up between high schools? And why would anyone think that this is ok? Didn't see ANYONE agree to the boundary plan when it was Lansdowne being split in the "Marshall-Reed" plan!
And to top it off good old Bob was saying that communities should stay together-- yet on the same evening he then votes to split the farm- what a hypocrit! AND then to make the situation worse he throws out a last ditch effort by moving one DN (in his district) back to Stone Bridge- as if that makes everything ok. Get real!
"Lansdowne's permanent home overrides all of them"
Why should THEIR needs be any more pressing than the kids in the Farm who--- let's see, have been disrupted 18 times already! Yes, John, it is many of the same families. And where exactly is Stone Bridge, Ashburn Farm on the front end and Belmont Country Club on the back side. Get over your fantasy of a feeder system,it doesn't work here!
And what happens when Freedom is over-crowded, oh, no big deal lets ship them back to Ashburn to HS-6, oh wait, can't do that- already filled with Brambleton and LVII kids, can't send them to BWHS, filled with Ashburn Farm and the Broadlands kids. OK everyone pack your bags we're heading north again! sick, sick, sick!
Mr Stevens,
I want to thank you for being the only voice of reason Tuesday night. You conducted yourself as a true professional. What I witnessed Tuesday night was the most disgraceful spectacle I have ever seen. All of us in Loudoun County should feel ashamed of the behavior of our elected officials. Mr Marshall, submits a plan in the 11th hour and then doesn't support HIS plan and abstains from voting, Mr Ohneiser's "hail mary" and Mr. Dupree's attack on the people of Lansdowne -'it's not our fault that the Lansdowne community saw fit to build two expensive Golf Courses instead of a much needed High School!' Are you kidding me? From the Chairman? Does he really think the people in Lansdowne had any say in what Benchmark Hospitality International chooses to build on their land? Clearly Mr Dupree harbors some serious contempt for the people of Lansdowne. I am very interested in what sort of disciplinary action will be taken for his comment. At a minimum, he should not be allowed to vote on this issue. Mr. Dupree most certainly does NOT have the welfare of this county as a priority.
I absolutely agree that Mr.Dupree’s comment about the golf course at Lansdowne was out of line. I work in a Loudoun County school and I see my Lansdowne neighbors there teaching, subbing and volunteering. Our lives are centered around our kids, not the golf course, just like the people in Ashburn. Of course that is the reason this debate has grown into an insult trading fest. But coming from a member of the School Board? Why doesn’t Mr. Dupree suggest that HS 6 be built on the 18th green at Belmont County Club? He doesn’t seem to be bothered by the fact that the developers wasted land on a golf course there.
In 2003, when the Lansdowne developer proposed 1000 new homes to be built around what is now the Lansdowne Town Center, the people living here at the time organized to try to stop that plan. We went to BOS meetings and Planning Commission meetings and expressed our disapproval with the plan. The “compromise” was that the developer was allowed to build 500 homes and paid to add four new classrooms to Seldens Landing ES. This was not the outcome we wanted, but it was the best we could do with the pro-growth BOS in office at the time. Mr. Ohneiser is correct when he suggested that all of the folks who took the time to attend the boundary meetings should attend the next BOS meeting and let them know we expect them to help solve the problem that they created.
Mr Stevens,
I’m confused on a couple of points. In your blog entry April 28th about your statement on Leesburg elementary schools, you made a comment:
"I don’t know these schools very well, which is one of the reasons it is best for the area’s representatives to seek common solutions instead of turning to the rest of us to decide."
That statement seems to contradict your post about the Lansdowne and Ashburn Farm post on April 30th. On one hand you are saying for Leesburg elementary schools, it’s best to let the local representatives handle and/or decide instead of turning to you and then when it comes to the Ashburn high school issue, you are more than willing to solve the problem. Seems odd…
Another point I am confused on is in that same post on April 28th, you made a comment:
"My own children go to the school with the highest levels of ESL/FRL students in my district."
Yet in subsequent replies to your blog on April 30th about the Boundary Motions and Votes section, you made a comment:
"I wasn't going to bring this up, but full disclosure since someone has commented on it... I have a son and daughter who live in Ashburn Farm, DN12. Please do not make them or my colleagues' children a part of this debate."
I know you don’t want to bring your children or your colleagues children into this debate, I’m just asking for clarification on those two statements.
Lastly, you made a comment on the April 30th post about the Lansdowne and Ashburn Farm: My Take:
"*A plan to expand Stone Bridge or build another high school north of the Greenway changes this formula, but until those plans are in place it isn't responsible to assign students to schools based on those proposals."
Yet, the staff plan which you support is based on HS6 opening early, which is not in place right now. HS6 has not been voted on by the voters and there is no money for it.
Care to comment?
I'm happy to respond to those questions.
1) In the case of both Leesburg Elementary schools and Ashburn/Leesburg High Schools, the affected representatives could come to no agreement on the right solution and so I weighed in.
2) In that statement I was referring to Countryside Elementary school, where I have two children enrolled, and where one of my two who now live in DN12 previously attended.
3) Accelerating HS-6 was a recommendation of the staff plan but without the acceleration the staff still stood behind the plan. The CIP may be a fluid plan, but it is the only plan we have.
What about the possibility of increasing the capacity of Tuscarora before it is built, then Lansdowne, as a whole community can move to Tuscarora, and then in 4-5 years they won't be forced to have to move again? Isen't it on a much bigger piece of land than the rest of the high schools?
Regarding permanent homes for Ashburn Farm vs. Lansdowne, they are equally important. Please read the "Update" section of the post.
The joint subcommittee is looking at the possibility of expansion of existing schools. Much of the land that Tuscarora is built on is set aside to minimize environmental impacts by agreement with the Town of Leesburg.
Yes, Tuscarora is being built on 132 acres. All other high schools in Loudoun County are on 65 acres or less.
I doubt the plans could be changed now that the school build is underway. Just another example of poor planning that the residents of Loudoun County have to suffer through.
Mr Stevens,
Can you please give us your thoughts on what you would do with the rising Juniors in 2010 that would be transferred to Briar Woods? The Junior year is heavily looked at by colleges during the application process (which takes place during the early part of a student's Senior year in HS).
Having students change schools is hard enough, but when it is during the most important time in their HS career with regards to applying for and getting into their college of choise, is pretty unfair.
Just to give you an example, my daughter applied to several colleges this year. All the colleges reported record numbers of applicants this year, saying that competition for the incoming freshman class was the toughest the school has ever seen. Based on the schools she applied to, the schools admission percentage was about 20% of all students applying.
Given that, if a students grades slip at all during their Junior year, that is really affecting their chances of getting into their college of choice. Can you blame the colleges? If they see a students has a drop in performance because they change schools, why take them? After all, aren't they changing schools by coming to college?
With that said, I believe the School Board should adopt a plan that allows ALL students to finish at the high school they start at.
I do agree that we should try to allow students to finish the high school that they started. I will have a rising sophomore at the time the boundary changes take place. If we can allow all students to finish the high school that they started, then no student will have to change high schools mid-stream and leave teachers, friends, etc.
Thank you Melodrama Mama for adding your comments. I completely agree with all of the points you raised!
Yes I also would like to know Mr. Stevens thoughts on the rising juniors. These children, including my daughter, had to change from Belmont Ridge to Eagle Ridge. They accepted this change knowing they would be going to Stone Bridge and reuniting with the rest of Ashburn Farm. To ask them to move in high school also, would be cruel. Please just don't give me school board policy as I know it already. Adamo has already told another school board member that if the staff plan passed Stone Bridge would be too overcrowded for them to approve any grandfathering requests. So are we to tell these kids tough luck?
What should have happened was when those students moved from Belmont to Eagle, they should have been designated to start at Briar Woods as Freshman. Seeing as how the feeder system is trying to be put in place. This did not happen. Now they have to pay the price, because as you said, there is no room at Stone Bridge. We can apply for a Special Exception , but it will be denied right away because they strictly follow the School Board's decision on boundaries and Stone Bridge has been closed off to new requests because of the overcrowding.
Again, poor planning. If the planning commission is so professional and expert in their plans, decisions, findings, how can something like this happen?
It's just a continuation of the lack of forward thinking that is taking place.
I feel sorry for all of Loudoun County. At some point, they will all get screwed over.
One other point about the feeder system: everybody keeps talking about how it keeps student communities together. While that may be true, it's not the whole story. Those Juniors that are being forced to Briar Woods, will be separated from their student communities 2 times in 3 years.
Oh, and the comment that Lansdowne students wouldn't know anybody else at Tuscarora is not entirely true. Lansdowne is part of Central Loudoun Little League, so those that play baseball will know kids in Leesburg that play baseball too. And for those that play beyond Little League, Babe Ruth is county wide. I also know that the lacrosse league is setup similar to the way that basketball is setup, based on the school you attend. I know that is not all inclusive of the activities kids participate in, but you get the point.
If the community wants to guarantee all students four years at the same high school, that can be done. It is not without its complications, including multiple bus routes through the same community (with associated increases in transportation cost, pollution, traffic), increased administrative costs and more empty seats in new schools. Others have suggested going further and grandfathering in all siblings. Everything has its tradeoffs and down sides, including the current system, and the advantage of community-run schools is that we can change them if we make the decision to.
The joint subcommittee is one place to advocate for this policy, another is providing input into the School Board goals that are currently under review.
If we could grandfather all siblings at the same school it would make life around the dinner table much easier for families!! I would be willing to provide transportation every day to the community school. Neighborhoods could work out carpools, only drive a few times a week?? Just a thought...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the school board is the one and only body that can guarantee kids stay at their high school for all 4 years.
I definitely want my son to stay at Stone Bridge all 4 years, but there is currently no way for that to happen, short of school board action. School board policy allows for Juniors affected by boundary changes to elect to stay at their current school, provided there is room. Under the current proposed staff plan, that won't happen. We can't even get a special exception approved because there is no room. That is one of the major flaws with the staff plan, there is no flexibility.
Under that policy for Juniors, it states that transportation will not be provided, so multiple bus routes would not happen.
So, exactly what do I need to do to ensure my son stays at Stone Bridge ALL 4 years? (This would be because of the college application process I mentioned earlier)
I also meant to note that I never heard Dr. Adamo state that Juniors could not be grandfathered under the staff plan in any public or private meetings. I heard Mr. Reed made that statement at the first work session. The numbers I worked with while deliberating included Junior class grandfathering. The crowding would have reached critical levels only after those Juniors had graduated.
According to Pupil Services, Juniors will not be able to attend Stone Bridge if they are moved out due to boundary changes. I spoke to them yesterday - they said that Stone Bridge is currently on the list of schools not accepting any special exceptions due to the overcrowding at Stone Bridge.
That is why I said it was solely up to the School Board to determine this. Pupil Services only follows what the School Board says.
So, if you vote to approve the staff plan, unless there is some provision made in that plan to allow Juniors to stay, they will have to change schools.
Another question comes to mind: what is the critical level for overcrowding? Dr Adamo's numbers have Stone Bridge at 1808 in 2010, 200 over capacity.
The other thing I don't get is one of the goals of this process was to move 400-500 students out of Stone Bridge. According to Dr. Adamo's numbers, there is only a decrease of 31 from the current enrollment to projected in 2010.
Mr. Stevens
I am still trying to understand how you call for a permanent home for "all" communities, and yet there is clearly no permanent home for any community except Lansdowne in this senario. "HS6", the land in Loudoun Valley Estates, is going to be filled with the overcrowding that already exists in the south. Not to mention the homes that are being built there currently. Those issues in South Riding area are already a problem, without AF moving into schools there. While bussing South Riding to Loudoun Valley Estates is not what is wanted, without any land to build their school, it might just have to happen. Then where do you put AF? Also why would you ever create an island out of a HS. The way you are talking, every neighborhood that surrounds SB will not attend it. Talk about wasting money and gas.
As for the feeder system, that broke when you built a middle school where an elementary school should have been and an elementary school where the middle school should have been. There is no middle school for Ashburn Farm. We have to attend it in other areas. If it had been built in the original place, there would not be any discussion, because AF would be attending the "feeder" to Stone Bridge and you would be facing the true problem and that is the many kids north of 7 not having a school. Lansdowne is just one of the communities that need help. Broad Run could be relieved of some of their overcrowding with that option.
Instead, you chose to over crowd two more schools in the hopes of accelerating a school that has no funding. How is a school without funding any different than a sub-committee looking for land of where a HS is needed? Since BOS is who ultimatley decides when and where a HS is going to end up, why would you not vote to support their efforts at the moment? No one says HS6 has to be in Loudoun Valley Estates, only that there is land there to build on. There is also land in other areas that can easily become HS6. It makes more sense in a "fluid" CIP to build where the population now exists, not where it is possibly going to be. Are you telling me that we are building schools where ever we are given land regardless of where people live to fill it? Once ther growth continues in Brambleton, and Loundoun Valley is built out and fills its school with that community, it will still leave areas with no "permanent" school.
"So are we to tell these kids tough luck?"No, we're supposed to be telling our kids that whatever school they go to, they are getting a top-notch education put in front of them and it is up to them as students to succeed or not.
We're supposed to be telling them that when we were kids, we walked three miles both ways to school. And didn't have our own car as sophmores.
Regardless of where we all live in Loudoun or which side of the issue one is on, the message we should be sending to our children is that it doesn't matter.
I was so disappointed at one of the public forums to hear so many children proclaim that the school board "will ruin my life if I don't get to go to -insert school-"
Is that really the big lesson you want our children to get out of 2009.
As parents in this area, we live quite a charmed life. We have our houses and yards and good jobs. We'll probably all be in great shape for the next several years as our kids go through school. Our children will get more education, more support, more opportunities and options in their future than most children across the country.
But what about their chances when they go off to college and then into the real world if we keep making high school placement the most pivotal moment of their childhood.
How will they handle moving dorms, or transferring to another college. Will they just drop out if they don't get into the classes of their choice.
As an adult, how will they handle a layoff or a forced relocation?
Will they just sulk in a corner until their career and savings are in the toilet or will they say "oh well, next challenge please."
My children have a preference of which high school they want to go to. They're only 10 years old but they know. I supposed I share their preference as well.
I have know idea whether they'll get their way. I don't even know the odds. I told them I would register our opinion with the school board ONCE so that their voices were heared but that their success was NOT going to be determined by what a government bureaucrat or elected official says.
They, themselves will have to put in hours of homework and studying. They, themselves will have to do the extra running, lifting, practicing if they want to be on a Loudoun varsity team. They, themselves will have to study for the SAT and apply for colleges.
If you really take an honest moment, it must seem sad that our children (some as young as 3rd or 4th grade) are absorbing an almost "life or death" atmosphere around here.
While they are only 10 now, they are learning lessons for a lifetime.
Whichever side of the issue you're on, please take a moment and think beyond school zones and think about what lessons we're teaching our children when they hear us fight.
Keep this discussion among adults and tell our older children to not burden their younger siblings with so much drama.
AND tell them that they've been blessed with a family that cares, a community with so many opportunities, and a school system that 90% of the country would beg for AND a bad school board decision or a new school will not be an excuse for bad grades.
Yes, I agree that all of those factors are not an excuse for bad grades. But, kids will be kids and they haven't developed the skills adults have in rebounding from change. That takes time and experience.
The problem this situation brings is that it forces these kids to go through this process and it will affect them. Some worse than others.
The School Board has the ability to ease the transition. The staff plan does not. With the staff plan, these kids are being told tough luck. It's pretty harsh, considering these kids have already been through a switch in schools once already.
For perspective, the Marshall/Reed plan allows for the rising Juniors and probably the Sophomores to finish at Stone Bridge. The staff plan does not. I'm not saying the Marshall/Reed plan should be used, but at least it has more flexibility to adjust, whereas the staff plan does not.
That is all I am asking for - a plan that is flexible enough to allow any kid to finish high school at the one they started. Doesn't matter whether they are from AF or Lansdowne. Let them finish where they started.
Ok John, you realize the error of your statement, however your view is still illogical! WHY should PERMANENT homes be far away from neighborhoods where the school is PHYSICALLY located?? Why would you want to spend more of the county money on busses unnecessarily? Making the schools that are far away from all communities will cost alot more in the long term! This solution only over crowds Stone Bridge even more as well as Briar Woods. Put Lansdowne at Tuscarora, yes it is a temporary fix. But goes a long way at stabilizing the boundaries for 4 schools! Those being Stone Bridge, Broad Run, Briar Woods and HS-6, if eventually built at Loudoun Valley II. During that time, you can 1)find a site for a new school to serve Lansdowne 2) use capacity, (what the BOS wants)3) find new ways of financing a new school.
What is going to happen when all of the areas North of RT 7 are built out and the schools south are full?? I guess then they can end up in Leesburg?
This is just more pitiful planning from LCPS. The growth in Ashburn has been pretty predictable for years now. That they are just coming to grips with these problems shows how behind the times they always are.
Growth in the county has been completely predictable. The county approves the homes. They know exactly where they're going to be and how many there will be. They know there will be kids in most of them. It is inexcusable that homes are built and the county has no idea where to send those kids to school. When homes were approved, permanent school boundaries should have been set that very day -- because the county should have been planning school capacity for that community. Planning, not imagining.
I know people say why build a school when there's capacity somewhere or why build a school that opens at half capacity? But that approach is exactly what's been causing all the boundary changes. We shuffle kids to wherever there's capacity. Then when that capacity disappears, we shuffle some more. We can't keep doing the same thing and expect different results.
That's why they need to get rid of Adamo. He's done a terrible job of planning and we're all feeling the impact.
The complaints about Dr Adamo make no sense. He comes up with a plan that moves very few kids, keeps them together with their peers and works in the long term plan when you consider the (long standing) HS6 build location....huh? I guess you can argue that you don't want to move to another neighborhood school but the logic and low risk of his plan is hard to argue with.
As a Loudoun County resident, I find the lack of logical,objective arguments expressed by several board members ridiculous. I find the contempt expressed by member Dupree embarrassing. I know, he was tired, right. Tired doesn't create your attitudes and beliefs, it does however make you more likely to express them publicly.
The political jockeying was ridiculous. Member Marshall has a change of heart on his plan, seemingly as a result of member Stevens excellent speech and then abstains? Member Geurin apparently "encouraged" member Marshall off-camera to abstain from the vote if he wanted support for the Leesburg elementary schools.
We should demand higher standards of our representatives even if it means that they don't endorse our favorite position. This sort of thing works against everybody sooner or later. There is no place for the "good ole boy" network in our school board.
If board members express and adhere to logical arguments, they can hold their heads high with any community as their positions will be defensible. When it's all over,as a community, you may not completely agree with a position, but at least you will be able to understand and respect it as it will have DN-wide merit.
I'm sure as a result of this there will be much more transparency in the process. I'm also sure that the members making the inappropriate comments will be receiving the attention and scrutiny that they deserve as a result of this. Members expressing attitudes such as these should be excluded from the vote altogether.
We need a long term plan that may require some short term pain to produce an end result in attendance zones that make sense for all of DN.
With HS6 coming to Loudoun Valley Estates (as is the current plan), it seems that we should be able to come up with one larger shift that would leave us all with a permanent home in the Lansdowne, Belmont CC Ashburn Farm neighborhoods.
The complaints against Dr. Adamo and the current system are valid.
Dr. Adamo's plan is based on HS6 opening early. Yes, HS6 is in the CIP, but it is not scheduled to open until 2014 and there is no money for this school. It has NOT gone before the voters of Loudoun County.
Dr. Adamo's plan does move the fewest kids, this time. However, if HS6 is built in LVE and this plan is followed, then THOUSANDS of kids will be moved south.
Dr. Adamo's plan is also not flexible enough to allow current high school students to remain at the school they started, except for seniors.
Look around, if Dr. Adamo and the planning commission were doing such a fantastic job, then why are there so many Loudoun residents angry and upset about the proposed boundary changes? Not only at the high school level, but at the elementary school level as well.
The problem we have is the School Board has TOTAL control over the boundaries. Each school board member also represents a small portion of the county and as long as we ALL have no say in whether they are re-elected, they will continue to worry about only those residents they represent.
Oh yeah, and forgot to mention Dr. Adamo did not follow School Board policy regarding setting school boundaries. At least at the high school level, he ignored most, if not all the factors listed in policy 2-32.
I ask: what is your reason for having such a lengthy opinion on an issue in which you don't even have a 'dog in the fight'.
It has been brought to my attention the possibility that you have further political aspirations.
If this is the case, please understand that we have a very large network of support OUTSIDE of Ashburn Farm - and we will be quick to activate this network if indeed - we need to campaign against someone who looks out for the desires of the few at the expense of what is best for the majority.
Though the staff plan only bussed some 200+ students from Ashburn Farm during the first year, More and more students will be progressively bussed from Ashburn Farm as the High School aged population from Lansdowne grows each year. Brambleton and Broadlands do not want to be crowded out of Briar Woods. We do not want to be crowded out of Stone Bridge.
Mr. Stevens,
You made a comment about "what if we are wrong" and Lansdowne has to move back.
One possible "wrong" outcome.
The other possible "wrong" outcome is that if you take the full capacity of THS which is 1,800 and run it at 120% (something we currently do at SBHS, proof we know how to do this) the actual capacity is over 2,150 students.
That is 550 over the current stated capacity.
Now if Sam would disclose the 3rd grade enrollment levels for all the students in Lansdowne and current slated to attend THS I would be willing to bet that there is capacity. A 3rd grader doesn't graduate until 2018.
It is very, very likely that this is when THS will be at the true capacity.
Living in Lansdowne and knowing my 3rd grader will graduate from THS is acceptable.
Ashburn Farm is a stable development, they no longer should be subject to school boundary changes.
I don't care if Mr. Dupree can't play at our golf course. But since I can doesn't entile me to their school either.
We made this problem in Lansdowne and now we need to fix it. It is not fair to make this everyone's problem by shifting everyone south. We need to move west or east and accept that we have a bus ride to take since the BOS didn't zone a school close to our homes.
Mr. Steven's get a grip, the solution is not to move everyone south. That wasn't the solution when Potomac Falls was built now way it?
Right, you're from Lansdowne. Member Dupree, you've been asked already to vacate this board.
All members "have a dog in the fight"...they all comprise our school board. They should all be getting as much information about all of the topics they are asked to vote on - whether they live in the district or not. Isn't this the whole point?
I applaud Mr.Stevens efforts to gain as much information and facts as possible and not taking this lightly, as we are not simply talking about numbers...these are our children.
So we find somebody that has an objective view point and because they also (allegedly) may have higher political aspirations, you threaten them? Brilliant.
Objective is objective. Objective means looking out for the many. Ashburn is not the "many" in this equation, all of DN is.
I feel good about supporting a position that was endorsed by independents like the expert staff and member Stevens. And honestly, I wouldn't be happy about having to move either if I lived in Ashburn. But the fact is, it's less burden and less kids involved for part of Ashburn to move to another neighborhood school than it is for Belmont CC or Lansdowne to move to Leesburg. If you doubt this, give Ashburn Farm those two choices and see which one they pick.
It is the point. However, nobody is following that approach. They are all concerned about their districts - so they can get re-elected next time. Check out Mr. Ohneiser's attempt at getting 1 section of AF put back in.
I think we'd all be better off if the Planning Commission was gotten rid of. If the School Board is ultimately responsible for boundaries, let them get to know all the communities and do what is right for everyone. And by all means, follow your own policies with regards to boundary changes!!
If you believe it's less kids being moved, you obviously did not see the "Master Plan" for the next move. It took all of Ashburn Farm south of Hay Rd and put them at Briar Woods.
That's a total of about 700 kids. Not all at this time, but the next boundary move would include them. And of course, those sections would be going to Stone Bridge and Belmont Ridge in the meantime, so they'd have to change schools.
Now, you move the 700 kids from AF to Briar Woods, you have to move 700 kids from Broadlands out of Briar Woods to HS6. You've now moved 1400 kids.
Now when LVE gets fully built out, will that max the capacity at HS6? I don't think anybody knows for sure - I've never seen any numbers reflecting this. But conceivably, when HS6 fills up, what then? Build another high school and change boundaries again?
The answer is to build the schools where they are needed and stop bussing kids all over the place.
I guess unless we can build more land, we'll have to use what we have and what we have dictates a southward move, whether you do it in one step or ten. This being the case, it would seem wise to use the staff plan as a first step to control growth until HS6 arrives and then do a big and permanent move to shift communities to their permanent homes at that time.
Why can't we wait until HS6 gets here to make a move? Who knows, HS6 might actually be located closer to Rte 7 - I think that's what the joint subcommittee will be looking at, among other things.
Actually, what we have dictates a move west, not south. We don't have HS6 at this point.
I have an idea-utilize the EXISTING CAPACITY at the Leesburg area high schools for Lansdowne. Why have we stopped talking about this? This is ridiculous. This should not be pitting neighborhood against neighborhood but when we keep going back to the "move everyone south so Lansdowne can stay in Ashburn schools and don't have to attend those awful Leesburg schools with (gasp) poor people" it starts to get me pretty mad. And the suggestion that Belmont Country Club be moved to Leesburg schools (maybe because they aren't as vocal as Lansdowne?), I get even madder. This is WHY it's becoming neighborhood against neighborhood.
I understand we all want what's best for our kids. I just think it's crazy that our elected officials are bowing down to one community (the community whose elected officials make the biggest stink). I just hope that those in Ashburn Farm and BCC remember, in 2.5 years, what "their" elected officials have been trying to do to them and send a strong message.
The reason that moving Belmont CC to Tuscorora is being considered is because they are smaller than Lansdowne and will fit in Tuscorara better.
Why would Belmont CC be viewed any differently than Lansdowne should somebody need to be moved? They are both on Rt 7 if that matters and north of Ashburn. Being smaller, Belmont CC might even fit permanently at Tuscorara? Has anybody run those numbers?
Does anybody really think that this is about the "rich" Lansdowne people not wanting to mix with the "poor" Leesburg people? Ashburn wouldn't want to go to Tuscorora either, not because of the poor people but as member Dupree mentioned in his statement when he said "it's not the community"
Actually, member Dupree said:
"and yeah, I don't like sending anybody to Leesburg, my daughter went there for two years and it's nice
ok...buts it's not the community. And I wish my community got a little credit bit of credit for
having put a school site in the community. We didn't put two golf courses that I can't afford to play.
It's the truth, It's the truth!"
Based on member Dupree's comments, you'd think that everybody in the Ashburn neighborhoods got together one night and agreed to build a few high schools to be responsible while everyone in the Lansdowne neighborhoods decided to get drunk and build golf courses in their neighborhoods.
The only community around that has a golf course associated with the community is Belmont Country Club (thus the "Country Club" in the name). Lansdowne golf course on the other hand is associated with the resort, not the homes.
And of course, neither neighborhood made either of these choices, the people just bought homes there. The difference in home size etc between the two is mostly about when the homes were built rather than where they were built. The newest homes in Ashburn are just like the Lansdowne or Belmont CC homes in size and price because they were built in the last few years (by some of the same builders that built homes in Lansdowne) rather than 10-20 years ago.
Correct - Residents of Ashburn Farm did choose to buy homes near a high school and Lansdowne residents did choose to buy homes near a golf course.
Also, not sure where the new homes built in Ashburn Farm are located...
We bought homes near a middle school in our neighborhood that your kids attend. The same middle school that you want your kids to continue attending while you try to throw us out of our community's high school.
My Ashburn Farm kid doesn't attend middle school in Lansdowne, he attends middle school in Broadlands, and high school at Stone Bridge... For now...
Correct - A middle school is located in your neighborhood community.
As Mr. Dupree mentioned, and I completely agree with, he would never dream of having Lansdowne move out of Belmont Ridge Middle school because it is in that community. Why is it different when it is Stone Bridge High School in the Ashburn Farm community?
One of the objectives which was supposed to be met by the staff plan was walk-ability and proximity S2-32. In both scenarios, both should be met and applied.
Am I missing something or does the staff plan overcrowd both Briar Woods and Stone Bridge by 500 kids each? How does that work??? I thought the point was to stop overcrowding????
Yes, the staff plan overcrowds both Stone Bridge and Briar Woods (in the hopes that taxpayers would approve a new high school, HS6, ahead of schedule to relieve the artificial, unnecessary overcrowding). The reason that the overcrowding suggested by the staff plan is even more ridiculous is that Leesburg area high schools have unused capacity. SO, none of the Ashburn high schools would HAVE to be overcrowded if our powers-that-be could come up with reasonable boundaries that make sense. Which is totally doable if it weren't for some extremely vocal and influential members of both the Board of Supervisors and the School Board, who live in Lansdowne. So their wishes trump the rest.
Funniest, weirdest part of this whoel entire mess, and yes, it is a mess, is that Bob O and Lori Waters both "represent" a vast majority of Ashburn Farm. I am very interested to see how their personal interests play out at the next election...
Mr. Stevens,
You are not addressing what would happen to those students who rightfully belong (due to proximity) at Briar Woods when you are done moving all of Ashburn Farm into their school. Where would they go? By the time you are gone, who will be going to schools that they can actually walk to? Certainly not anybody in Ashburn. I find it laughable that somehow Broad Run is "untouchable" in this scenario and you are so very concerned about moving Lansdowne multiple times but you have no problem with shipping 1/2 of Ashburn Farm down to Briar Woods now and then the rest of them in a few years. Seems to be like everybody gets a quick permanent home except Ashburn Farm.
If the Leesburg students are going to fill their high schools in the next couple of years - build the new high school there.
"I have an idea-utilize the EXISTING CAPACITY"
This "utilize capacity" is exactly why we're in the situation we're all in. Every year, the School Board moves kids to wherever there is capacity. Then when that capacity disappears, they move kids again. Until we start building capacity where the students are, instead of moving kids to where we have temporary capacity, neighborhoods will never have permanent boundaries. No one likes to see schools operating at less than capacity until the surrounding neighborhood fills up but filling up a school temporarily with kids from other neighborhoods perpetuates the boundary changes that everyone is unhapppy with. Until the county builds the schools it needs and builds them where it approved houses, we're going to have boundary changes.
Right; we need to shift the boundaries to permanently hold students based on the school capacity and the combined capacity of the neighborhoods that they serve. That way, we don't have to shuffle kids every time there are a few more seats somewhere outside our area than we have within it.
Once HS6 is here, DN will be stable from the Potomac River to the south of Ashburn. Redraw the lines once then and make it permanent. Then we can take those communities off the table for future moves. This planning will need to take communities from Lansdowne to Broadlands into account and include them in the mix of Stone Bridge, Broad Run and Briar Woods schools.
If HS6 is built in LVE, it makes no sense for Lansdowne to move out of Stone Bridge as that is the first school to the south and they have always been there. If HS6 is built elsewhere, the shift should pull kids (once) from DN which would then expand to include the new school towards that new school. So the students required to move should move once no matter what to permanent homes.
I think our best solution would be to build additions on to our existing DN schools such as Stone Bridge and Briar Woods and implement the staff plan.
This would solve our problems permanently without the need for future movement out of DN schools. This is a good solution for all neighborhoods.
How can implemeting ths staff plan be a "Good solution for all neighborhoods," when it rips Ashburn Farm apart sending 3 planning zones to Briar Woods now, and more later.
There are available seats in 3 Leesburg schools, and if you bought a house in a Leesburg zip code you need to go to a Leesburg school!! Why is the School Board so concerned with the fact that the Lansdowne kids may have to move again in 4-5 years?? I have never heard them say, "Oh, let's not move A.F. now because they may have to move again in 4-5 years." We just got moved!! Again and Again!!
Maybe make Tuscarora a larger capacity school now, send Lansdowne there, and they can stay together there, and we won't be forced out of our neighborhhod school.
I agree that the staff's plan isn't what is best for everyone. It is based on a southern shift, meaning MORE kids will be spending MORE time on busses than they are now.
The solution is to build the schools where the kids are.
I hope the newly formed subcommittee is going to look at ALL options, including building additions to schools, bringing in trailers and putting a new HS along the Route 7 corridor. There are available options that will minimize the number of moves that kids have to make.
It is time the Planning Commission does their job and start planning where the kids are and put the schools there, instead of constantly shifting everyone around.
You appeared to be the only member of the board last week that had a reasonably constructed argument defending their point.
I'm glad to see that there is one member of the board that seemed to think through the issue versus giving an emotionally charged argument that served to drive a wedge between Lansdowne and Ashburn Farms. Some of the members, especially DuPree who made the golf course comment should be ashamed of themselves.
My only comment is don't always believe what the school board tells you. We are NOT getting the full story on any of this. There are other motives at play here - after all, they are politicians.
What Mr DuPree said wasn't right, but neither were the actions and words of Mr Ohneiser. His last ditch motion is a prime example of the political motives at play in this issue.
Mr Stevens is certainly entitled to his opinion, but I question the reasoning behind it. During the ES school debate in Leesburg, he deferred to the local reps - now he doesn't defer to local reps for the high school debate? Yeah, he says he only weighed in because they couldn't come to a decision, but...what's the rest of the story?
Result of the boundary decision:
Sterling Middle 100% feed to Park View,
Smarts Mill 100% feed to Tuscarora,
Simpson 100% feed to Loudoun County,
Seneca Ridge 100% feed to Dominion,
Riverbend 100% feed to Potomac Falls,
Mercer 100% feed to Freedom,
Harper Park 100% feed to Heritage,
Harmony 100% feed to Woodgrove,
Farmwell 100% feed to Broad Run,
Blue Ridge 100% feed to Loudoun Valley,
Belmont Ridge 100% feed to Stone Bridge.
Looks like Loudoun County has a plan that has been working when building school communities. The only middle schools that are not direct feeds are Eagle Ridge and Stone Hill. We should build HS-6 near one of these middle schools.
Yes, Stone Bridge is the closest school to the south to Lansdowne. And Tuscarora will be the closest to the west. What's the difference? Worried about home values?
Wow!!! The answer was right in front of our noses the whole time. Way to take the easy way out.
Does anybody know who is on this infamous new subcommittee to study boundaries? If this committee is comprised of the same folks who have been unable to make a good decision so far, I guess we can expect it to fail.
So tell me, where in the School Board policy does it talk about feeder systems?
Also, please tell us how you decide on which schools get to be the split feeds? What is your criteria for deciding this?
It isn't a matter of "getting" to be a split feed, it's "having" to be a split feed. Split feeds aren't a good thing, look at the rest of the county.
After HS6, everybody will be pure feed and better off for it. HS6 should be put near Stone Hill for this reason and zones should be shifted once and permanently to achieve a reasonable distribution and utilize the new HS6 capacity permanently.
Tuscorora isn't in DN and can't be permanent for anybody but Belmont CC (because of their size). Tusc shouldn't be used when we can just wait until HS6 gets here. Optimize our capacity in the interim and utilize our new capacity once HS6 arrives; the best of both with low cost and low risk.
Check out the latest CIP. We will have split feeds until at least 2017. And as long as this area keeps growing, they will keep adding schools and shifting kids around.
I wonder where Lansdowne would be going if Newton Lee had been the middle school that it should have been. Then BCC and AF could have gone to that middle school with a direct feed to SB. I guess they would have gone to a Leesburg school then?? Since they support a diect feeder system. It's too bad it wasn't a middle school. If it had been, we sure might be able to avoid this mess of who gets to stay at SB!
I am going to vote against every new school bond that comes my way. Want to know why? Because our school board can't figure out a way to use what they already have... I encourage all the taxpayers to do the same thing. And, no, the kids aren't going to suffer for it, not matter what Hatrick says...
Yeah, great idea, let's don't build any more schools...we'll teach them. No, wait a minute...
Yeah let's burn down the schools, err, uuggh, darn...that doesn't work either.
Or we could just have more reasonable expectations and demand rational solutions. The school baord can't make more land, they have to build schools where they have it. Our distribution of students within a planning district should be something that a child could look at and see the logic.
If you move one community outside your district and then ask the child, "Which one of these is not like the other?", I'm guessing even the child will see the problem, and even how to solve it. The solution is within DN and it's obvious.
Be cautious and defer changes except to correct split feeds until we have HS6, then do what must be done to shift whatever parts of DN around to incorporate HS6 into the mix wherever it is. But do it once and make it permanent.
HS-6 in LVE wouldn't solve the split feed issue. The Villages of Waxpool are now attending Stone Hill because of Ashburn Farm moving in to Eagle Ridge. If the goal is for Stone Hill to feed into HS-6 then these kids would be bused pass Briar Woods. But wait look at all those future plans that were presented April 16th none of them do this. So even the staff see how this feeder doesn't work.
Think for a minute... the last school bond barely passed, What happens if the next one, to say fund HS-6 FAILS, then what? we will have 2 over crowded schools. I for one am getting tired of funding schools that sit empty- think Creighton's Corner- another school that was built in the wrong place at the wrong time. Why didn't that school get built at Moorefield station early? At least then DN-24 would not have to be bussed PAST 2 schools to get there.
Rather then spent 11.4 million dollars on land to build a mega-school complex, use that money to find land to build a school where the current population resides!I have no problem leaving the boundaries alone- supplementing with trailers until such time when land can be found to build a school for Lansdowne and the communities along rt.7. I don't like the idea of trailers but if it protects the student population from shifting again and again, then so be it. My kids went to school with a capacity of about 700 whose population was OVER 1000, they used the trailers until a new school could be built- in the right place. No kid suffered,everyone just worked together to get the job of educating the kids done and done right. As far as split feeds, Stone Bridge is currently a split feed as are many of the elementary schools- it is no big deal. Neighborhoods are far more important-the kids spend more time with neighborhood kids-- at least until they can drive! I do have a dog in this fight and I don't want to have to move this kid in her junior year of HS. Would anyone want to do this??
We aren't looking for a home for Lansdowne specifically. Lansdowne goes to Stone Bridge now, always has.
We're trying to figure out how to efficiently share these DN schools that everybody has an equal right to regardless of it's proximity to the school. Fortunately for Ashburn, they are near 3 DN high schools and one CL high school so they have many good second choices.
The county doesn't draw concentric rings around a school to determine boundaries, why should Stone Bridge be different than Broad Run for instance? Kids accross the street from Broad Run go to Stone Bridge.
One of those outcomes of the subcommitte could move Belmont CC or Landowne or Ashburn Farm partially or completely out of Stone Bridge.
Whatever happens, changes should be as extensive and painful as required to make them only once rather than dragging this out and shuffling kids every year or two. Nobody should move to a temporary home.
Good points anon regarding sharing the schools among DN communities, this seems to be getting lost.
As far as the importance of neighborhood kids in the post before that, you're also right.
If Ashburn Farm is split between Stone Bridge and Briar Woods. The kids on one side of the street will go to one school, kids on the other side going to the other school. But...all of these kids will see the kids on their street at school and play with the kids on the other side of the street when they get home, they will keep all these relationships so we wouldn't be "tearing apart" anything.
If Belmont CC or Lansdowne were put temporarily at Tuscorara, this would not be the case. Outside kids can't just walk into Belmont CC.
And keeping the Eagle Ridge kids together at Briar Woods lessens the separation for these kids, a good thing. It just doesn't do it at Stone Bridge, that's all.
Let me get this straight. One of Lansdowne's arguments against going to Tuscarora or Heritage is that those schools are in CL and not DN. Another argument is that the kids wouldn't know anyone there.
Now, someone suggests that Ashburn has a good second choice in a CL school because it is close by.
Why is the same argument good for one community and not the other?
And the argument that Lansdowne has always gone to Stone Bridge doesn't fly either. AF has always gone there too. (At least since Stone Bridge opened)
So because BCC has a fence around it, they should all get to stay together?? Maybe AF should put a fence around it, then maybe we could all stay at SB? We have 3 pools in AF that families can use. I can see it now with teenage boys from one side of the street saying SB is better, and the kids from the other side of the street saying BW is better. This is only asking for violence to occur.Fights will break out at the pools over the summer!! And if your thinking to yourself,"Oh that will never happen," You don't have a son. Teenage boys are full of testosterone!!
Yes, let's keep Ashburn Farm together to prevent violence against teens! Who wouldn't be for that!
The Farm could be the opposite of "the Triangle" where they split them apart for that same reason.
Using your logic, we should end the split feed at Eagle Ridge now to prevent fights between the kids over Briar Woods or Stone Bridge.
I hope you can all see the destruction that is caused by constantly moving kids around, especially out of their own neighborhoods.
And who, you might ask is responsible for all these moves? It would be none other than the Planning Commission, led by Dr. Adamo. The plan for high schools his staff put together violates school board policy. Every 2-3 years, there is always a boundary change that moves kids between schools.
If we are to be fighting against someone or a community, it should be the Planning Commission, not ourselves. They are the ones causing all these problems. They supposedly have all the information as far as houses being built, kids, etc to make these types of decisions. Instead, they choose to go with the feeder system, which cannot be implemented with any kind of consistency when the areas affected are still growing.
The areas where feeder systems work is where growth is limited to the natural rise of kids through the system.
Good Post! The feeder system won't work when you haave 10 middle schools feeding 13 high schools. Unless the School board plans on building 3 more middle schools to catch up with the High Schools, we will continue to have split feed schools. It works!! There will always be split feed schools. Elementary schools do it too.
Yes, feeder system first puts kids last! Let's split kids apart through their middle school and high school years to put them first! No wait a minute...that doesn't make any sense...nevermind...
I don't get you guys; the feeder system should always be used where it can and we will get the shared-experience benefit everywhere the feeder is used.
There may be cases or points in time where we are in transition as a planning district, like before HS6 arrives that we can't do a pure feed temporarily, fine. Pure feed should be our end state though.
We can't be "against" the feeder system which is the only way to guarantee that our kids stay together purely as a means of keeping particular kids at a particular school. That doesn't make any sense.
There's no way that kid attending a split feed school would "prefer" leaving half their friends behind over staying with them. Ask the kids, maybe they should be the ones voting. What kid would vote to leave 1/2 of their friends instead of staying with them?
For all of the Ashburn parents ready to torch Lansdowne or Belmont CC, you should remember that you are trying to kill off the friends of your kids, not their parents.
I think the point about schools was simply that Ashburn has several local schools that are great options for their kids even if they aren't Stone Bridge. Most communities are not so fortunate.
So tell me how the feeder system benefits kids that are moved twice? Once during middle school and once during high school. This staff plan does it now and will do it again in 2 years when most of the rest of AF is moved.
You only support the feeder system because your kids don't have to move.
Please tell me where feeder systems are in the school board policy?
There is nothing about feeder systems in the attendance boundary change criteria.policy 2-32
1.School enrollment projections
2.School capacities, new facilities, and/renovations to existing school facilitites.
3.School location and site charachteristices. SB sits in AF.IGNORED
4.Transportation issues (walk zones, transportation times,costs,safety, existing and planned road networks.)IGNORED
5.Natural and mand made features. (Like Rt. 7.) IGNORED
6. Existing and planned communities. Splitting AF. IGNORED
7.Whenever possible, minimize the effect of previous boundary changes. 18 moves in 20 years. DEFINATLY IGNORED.
8. Demographic charachteristics.??
9. Equitable distribution of programs and resources.
There isn't anything in those guide lines about not throwing a community completely out of a planning district temporarily either. Some things are just common sense and thus don't need to be explicitly stated.
I suspect that there will be new guidelines used that actually apply to our situation used for the fall.
These guidelines don't apply? What kind of guidelines do you propose to use?
There is a lot of common sense that is being ignored here. I guess it's convenient to ignore what doesn't apply to you, or throw it out if it hurts your argument.
So if I don't like the new guidelines, do I get the chance to throw them out and get new ones?
Who exactly said that the "feeder system" is the best system?? Hatrick?? Get real. For all the arguments you may have in favor of such a system, I bet there are an equal number of arguments against it! It forces kids together- it gives them no opportunity to make new friends. Should we implement a feeder system for colleges too?? A split feed gives kids the comfort of being around the neighborhood kids as well as make new friends. Fairfax has a pyramid system-- starting at the HIGH SCHOOLS and working down! It works and has for YEARS and YEARS. I went to a split feed, didn't suffer. DN, CL, DS, WL- they are LETTERS used by the planning staff to make boundary desicions. Get rid of that lame system and start using natural boundaries, communities,and proximity to schools. It just stands to reason if you live in a community,can walk to the school- you should go to that school. OK- I realize that 2 DNs are across the street from Broad Run- BUT they are part of the Ashburn Farm community. Someone had to go. Broad Run is over-crowded, it has trailers. So what, would it have been better to move a handful of people from the Village? No, no one wanted the communities split apart. When part of the Farm was moved back to Eagle Ridge a couple of years ago, it made sense, no one wanted to but who was going to go?? No one suggested that Lansdowne move out of Belmont. This plan is asking the Farm to move even though they are the closest to Stone Bridge. I don't want my kid bussed 6.2 miles (and yes it is exactly that distance front door to front door) down a less than safe road when she can WALK to Stone Bridge. She would not have to rely on me to get her to school early or pick her up after school should she need to stay late. We are lucky to have a school in our backyard. And for that we must be punished?? I don't care who she is friends with in middle school-- we all know that can change with the wind. This plan is destroys a community and creates an elitest school (Stone Bridge)I wonder, with all the talk of free and reduced lunch numbers and ESL numbers in the Leesburg elememtary schools, has anyone looked at what this plan does to the diversity at Stone Bridge??
We don't have HS-6, and with all the uproar, I don't see it coming anytime soon. We still have to vote on it-- and do we really want to be looking at 2 extremely over-crowed schools while waiting to get funding to build a new one?
"It forces kids together- it gives them no opportunity to make new friends."
This would be really funny if you weren't serious. Maybe the split feed did you more damage than you realize.
Dr Hatrick and everybody else including teachers spoke of the value of the feeder system and because this goes against keeping your daughter at the prized Stone Bridge, it's a bad argument?
The "diversity" comment is just silly.
Nobody ever talked about removing all of the farm from Stone Bridge just part of it because they have another nearby and excellent option for their kids in the same community.
Belmont CC and Lansdowne have the same rights to the county schools as Ashburn, no matter where they are located. The commute to the other excellent choice is not far by county standards. It's time to accept that as a planning district "we" need to come up with the best options for all of DN. Unfortunately, proximity to schools when most of them are in Ashburn doesn't trump a reasonable distribution among those schools for all DN communities.
So what's best for the entire DN is to shift everyone south?
Do you realize that in 2-3 years another 500 or so kids from AF will be moved to Briar Woods? This will bring the total to around 700. All shifted south.
Those 700 students are taking seats at Briar Woods, leaving less room for those that live near Briar Woods. This means they will have to go somewhere else, probably HS6. When LVE grows, what then?
We can't throw out a long term reasonable distribution of kids/communities/schools because one community is tired of moving. Although being tired of moving is of course a reasonable complaint.
Substantive moves before HS6 is nailed down or completed don't make sense as they aren't really required if we work as hard to accommodate others as we are working to expel them. And, those moves are guaranteed to be temporary so it's a wasted move being made for political rather than logical reasons.
Shifting the zones around is the only good way to achieve good distribution, good use of permanent capacity while maintaining reasonable proximity of communities to schools. This being the case,
shift the DN in whatever direction that HS6 demands to redistribute towards the new and permanent capacity and be done in the Ashburn area with a single move. If HS6 is in LVE, the obvious shift direction is southward, if someplace else, we would shift that way. This sort of shift would make sense to every community, even if you weren't happy about having to move.
Lansdowne also has an excellent and nearby option in Tuscarora, a brand new school. There are also many available seats in Leesburg. Maybe just remove part of Lansdowne and send them there. Then when your community is ripped in half, you will begin to understand how people in the Farm feel. Why is Lansdowne so against going to a Leesburg school? How would Lansdowne feel if some of their children could not attend Belmont Ridge, and were forced out of that school?
Give Ashburn the choice of either moving to Briar Woods OR Tuscorara ad then you'll have your answer.
And as member Dupree even said "...it's nice, but it's not the community..."
Briar Woods is nice too, but it's not the Ashburn Farm community.
Looks like we have a serious problem here.
Sending Ashburn Farm to either Briar Woods or Tuscarora violates both the stability and proximity arguments that Mr. Stevens uses to justify leaving Lansdowne at Stone Bridge. ALL of the arguments that Lansdowne uses to justify staying at Stone Bridge can be applied to Ashburn Farm. BUT, not all arguments Ashburn Farm uses to justify staying at Stone Bridge can be used by Lansdowne.
So, with that being said, there has to be an alternative. After all, the school board did reject plans that moved each community out of Stone Bridge.
Something else has to happen.
The point was that Briar Woods for Ashburn is a much better option (if you have to pick one) than is Tuscorora and the same is true for Belmont CC or Lansdowne. Briar Woods is a better option for either of them as well...or Stone Bridge or Broad Run. Leesburg doesn't work, but, it doesn't have to if there is an effort by the farm to find a way to keep all of our neighborhoods together in DN rather than trying to not only keep Stone Bridge to themselves but throw somebody (for God's sake anybody!) completely out of DN to do so.
Proximity isn't going to matter much in any of these cases since the options are all close enough for everybody. It just sounds like whining to the school board. Everybody needs better arguments than that.
So I agree, there needs to be an "inclusive option" rather than an "exclusive option" available that all of the DN communities embrace. If this were to happen, the school board would probably rubber-stamp it. Unfortunately, this will almost certainly involve splitting the farm among Stone Bridge and Briar Woods since nobody is going to want to leave DN and it doesn't make sense for Lansdowne to drive past several high schools to get to theirs when a redraw of the lines would make for a reasonable distribution.
For what it's worth, and as a "real" Lansdowne resident, I would be satisfied with Briar Woods as a (permanent) home for Lansdowne. It's as good a school as Stone Bridge, it's in our community etc but I don't think there are any plans that would make it work as it would force other kids out of Briar Woods. It's these reasons that lead me to the conclusion that the only workable option is really to redraw the lines and if we do that the only reasonable outcome is probably that the farm will be split.
I don't see any community getting thrown out of DN temporarily as a solution that will pass.
A good option for everybody involved would be to find easy ways to increase the capacity at our existing schools so that everybody fits. This would work and wouldn't require big changes. It would be communities working to stay "together". The school board would certainly like this approach too.
I'm trying to understand the residents of Lansdowne's point of view, but I'm struggling. I just don't understand why Briar Woods for Ashburn Farm is a better option than Lansdowne to Tuscarora.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just want to hear a reasonable explanation.
You mentioned that AF is trying to keep Stone Bridge all the themselves. But isn't that what Lansdowne is doing also? (In general, not everyone in both communities has this opinion).
I also don't understand the throw somebody out of DN. Doesn't the argument their all Loudoun County schools apply? I've heard that from Lansdowne about why AF doesn't want to go to BW.
I'm not trying to throw anybody out of anywhere, but merely trying to demonstrate the flaws into why moving AF out of Stone Bridge is not the answer. I'm trying to have my kids have stability. My two older kids have already changed schools once, this change would affect my middle one as a junior. That would be 3 moves for 2 of my kids - who knows what will happen to my youngest (5th grader).
You made a comment about having Lansdowne going to BW as not a good option as that would force kids out of BW - well that's what moving AF to BW does.
I think there are other options out there. Increasing capacity is one, putting a high school along the Route 7 corridor is another. There is just too much political stuff going on between the school board and BOS that prevents the schools from being projected, locations found and built on time and in the location that they should be.
Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative - I just see a lot of arguments being used by both sides that are dismissed by the other and then reused as an argument against the other.
I even heard the argument yesterday about the school board policy didn't explicitly say feeders couldn't be used. That's just a bunch of BS. If we want to play semantics, then we'll NEVER come to a decision on this.
All one needs to do is look at the numbers. Page 13 of the Loudoun Independent.
Staff plan 2010/2011
BW 1704
Heritage 1108
County 1145
SB 1808
Tuscarora 1219
Marshall/Reed proposal
BW 1430
Heritage 1265
County 1145
SB 1549
Tuscarora 1595
Much more balanced numbers! It makes sense to send Lansdowne to Tuscarora. At least their community would be staying together.
I agree on the numbers, but that both those plans were vetoed.
And if we just keep stating the same arguments over and over, that gets us no where.
Lansdowne residents - what is your opinion on having a new high school on the Route 7 corridor (in DN) that you could go to? I'm just asking, because I don't think I've ever heard someone give an opinion on that.
I wouldn't be so opposed to a rt 7 school but it still separates the Belmont Ridge kids from their friends which makes no sense for the Ashburn kids or the Belmont CC kids or the Lansdowne kids, they should stay together.
These neighborhood communities are closely connected together too, a school in the north somewhere would mix Belmont CC or Lansdowne with kids from some other distant communites (I guess) that they don't know or interact with, not Ashburn area kids that they go to school with do all of their sports activities after school with.
So in some ways, the geography might be a little better depending on the site but the isolation would likely be about the same and it would forever break the feed of Belmont Ridge ms to Stone Bridge.
So for this reason, it probably wouldn't work well. The correct solution involves keeping Belmont Ridge ms the feed to Stone Bridge I think and this obviously takes those kids with it.
OK-- new point, the school board has contracted to buy land to build a new HS in the western part of the county (again) so, will this be a relief for Tuscarora?? Seems that there will be room there once the new school is built. So Lansdowne can go to THS. There problem solved.
I am now struggling with the whole "keep communities together" argument that seems to only be applying to Lansdowne. I think that, if Ashburn Farm has to be split, resulting the split of Broadlands and Brambleton, why can't Lansdowne be split, too? Some to Tuscarora, some to Stone Bridge? Why don't we seriously explore that option?
If we can figure that out, it would mean less displacement of Ashburn Farm and everyone south.
How's that sound Lansdowne people?
I think we said keep students together with the feeder system. It just happens to be the case that all of Lansdowne (neighborhood) attends Belmont Ridge ms.
Ashburn Farm is already split with Eagle Ridge, the staff plan would be putting those kids back together. So, you wouldn't be "breaking" anything, you'd be "fixing" it which isn't what would happen if you split Belmont Ridge ms.
If I were an Ashburn Farm resident, I would be fighting for keeping Eagle Ridge students together at one school, that's for sure. Don't understand what the big deal is or what makes Stone Bridge so special.
Well a new high school in western Loudoun might be relief for Tuscorora if it ever gets built. But as hard as it is to build schools in eastern Loudoun, it seems to be even harder to build them in western Loudoun so I'm not holding my breath on that one.
If you live in Ashburn Farm; ask yourself this simple question:
"Is there any scenario where I would ever want my kids to be separated from most of the kids they went to middle school with to be sent to Leesburg where they would be a small part of a school in a community where they don't know the kids and with which my community doesn't interact at all?" (and mind you this would be a temporary move as well with nowhere to come back to)
If your answer is "no" (or "hell no!") then you're beginning to understand how Lansdowne feels.
You should also understand based on this why going to Briar Woods (in comparison) seems like a pretty darn good option with none of the negatives of the Leesburg option.
I really don't care if my kid is seperated from the Lansdowne kids at Belmont. She LIVES in Ashburn Farm and has close friendships with kids there. I have high schoolers. They have friends in Lansdowne yes, BUT..... they have said that if they MUST be separated from someone, it would be better to stay with NEIGHBORHOOD friends. Put the shoe on the other foot. What if it is Lansdowne that gets split. There is no easy answer to this issue but the bottom line is that someone has to be moved. There is no HS-6, so why over crowd 2 schools in hopes that it gets built on time and that the voters approve it. Too bad that the BOS saw fit to permit another Harris Teeter and Walgreens and more townhomes on land that would have been PERFECT for a middle school for Ashburn Farm. Wonder where these kids will go to school?
I find it rather amusing that we sit here and want to school board to save money and be "green" yet there are some that are in favor of using more resources and money for transportation. Just what is the transportation budget and how can the be slashed!? I know of 4 DNS that are given busses that don't need them, but I guess if they are in a walk zone then they can't be shipped down to Briar Woods. How convienent. I asked that my DN be a walk zone many months prior to this boundary issue-purely as a cost saving idea, never heard back from anyone in transportation.
There is no "feeder system". There are split feeds all over the county. I think we need to start splitting up all the neighborhoods. Just draw a line right down the middle of each HOA. Half can go one way, the other half somewhere else.
Tuscarora does not have to be a temporary solution for Lansdowne.
Okay Lansdowne anonymous, here's your comment that you want Ashburn Farm parents to answer:
"Is there any scenario where I would ever want my kids to be separated from most of the kids they went to middle school with to be sent to Leesburg where they would be a small part of a school in a community where they don't know the kids and with which my community doesn't interact at all?"
I'm going to reiterate it to you from the Ashburn Farm point of view:
"Is there any scenario where I would ever want my kids to be separated from most of the kids IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD to be sent to A SCHOOL OVER 5 MILES AWAY where they would be a small part of a school in a community where they don't know the kids and with which my community doesn't interact at all?"
Answer that. Make sense now?
I don't really interact with anyone in Broadlands or Brambleton. I only go to Brambleton to go to the movie and to Broadlands to buy gas at Safeway. I mostly interact with those in my own community. How many Lansdowne residents come to Ashburn Farm to hang out, shop, spend time at the pool etc....No you spend time and interact with YOUR COMMUNITY! Unless it is a Belmont or Stone Bridge function-- would you really come down here or interact with us?? I doubt it. I certainly don't go there-- unless it is to go to Joes. :) And no, it is not that I don't like anyone or have a problem with anyone- I just have no reason to go there. It is not my community. Sorry, not one of those moms who plans playdates all over the county for my kids, I send them outside to play with the neighbors. And I don't allow my teens to drive all over the county either, they hang out in the neighborhood with their friends. THAT is why neighborhoods should have priority. Not feeders.
"Well a new high school in western Loudoun might be relief for Tuscorora if it ever gets built. But as hard as it is to build schools in eastern Loudoun, it seems to be even harder to build them in western Loudoun so I'm not holding my breath on that one."
Kind of like I am holding my breath about HS-6-- right now I am not so sure anyone south of Hay Road would vote for the bond! I know I won't be! As long as it remains on the LVII site. Move it to the RT 7 area and I may re-think my view.
"Ashburn Farm is already split with Eagle Ridge, the staff plan would be putting those kids back together. So, you wouldn't be "breaking" anything, you'd be "fixing" it which isn't what would happen if you split Belmont Ridge ms."
Actually, this is an incorrect statement. there are 3 DNs in the staff plan that attend Eagle yet are left in Stone Bridge. AND DN 14is across the street from Stone Bridge.But apparently no one cares about that. With this plan they have very few middle school friends- if any, that will go to HS with them. Guess they are the anomolies with the "feeder" system. Should we move them back to Belmont to have this feeder system work? If those kids are back at Belmont then I guess some of Lansdowne needs to go to Harper and Heritage. Certainly can't over-crowd Belmont. IF you really want the feeder system to work better move those kids now. AND what happens if those 2 DNs that are close to Broad Run eventually get moved there, should they then get moved to Farmwell to keep THAT feeder intact? Anyone want to open that can of worms now or wait til later. You want a feeder system? Fine, start fixing the entire problem now. Bet there would not be much support. Crying "feeder system" only works if you are not the ones getting moved. And if you are a middle school with no high school, too bad for you, guess you get homeschooled! What a stupid concept this "feeder system" is.
What does happen if DN 25 and DN 26 do end up at Broad Run? They will be at a high school with all the kids from Farmwell. How is that fair after spending 3 years at Eagle Ridge? THEY WON'T KNOW ANYONE!!! DN 25 and DN 26 CANNOT go to Broad Run!!! We may be able to walk to Broad Run, but it is not our community school.
And by the way, Bobby O. said that he would NOT VOTE to move those DNs that are next to Stone Bridge out- meaning DN 14(which is in HIS district, along with his last ditch effort to move 28 back) So... you will forever have a split feed at Stone Bridge- unless you move that DN as well as 28 back to Belmont. Not gonna happen. Pawns, our kids are nothing but pawns. And they are not even kids to the planning staff, they are just numbers on a piece of paper. This is why you have "over-flow" schools. The planning staff just doesn't give a rats butt about kids, only numbers. Sanders had a handful of kids from Lansdowne as overflow kids last year. I felt sorry for those kids to be torn from their neighborhoods. I am sure those parents did the best they could but I am also sure they would have rather been in their COMMUNITY! Those kids sure did get out in a hurry when given the opportunity(mid-year). They- according to current logic, should have stayed because they will "be with the kids eventually going to middle and high school with" so being out of their community should not have mattered! Just how did Lansdowne feel about shipping their kids past 3 schools to get to Sanders? Away from the neighborhood, long bus ride down dangerous Belmont Ridge Road. And don't be surprised if it happens again, Seldens is getting full (or already is). Be careful of the logic you choose to use, it could backfire. IMO- NO child should be taken out of his neighborhood school shipped to another community just because the school is "full"- get a teacher, stick up a trailer and do the best you can- at least the kids are in school with FRIENDS and their home community. When I explained this process to friends in Fairfax, they were in disbelief. No one had ever heard of such a practice. When I moved here I was told my 4th grader could be enrolled but my kindergarten child had to go to ALDIE, not because the school was full but because they didn't have a TEACHER! This was in June, before the numbers were even final. Fortunately, this didn't happen but parents waited in line at crazy hours to get their kid "in". And this is a public school system that we all pay taxes to support. What a mess! Adamo needs to go and fast.
something rather amusing.. on the Loudoun Valley Estates website, they advertise NEIGHBORHOOD SCHOOLS (Rosa Carter,Stone Hill) within walking distance and the new HIGH SCHOOL opening in 2010. What? Is Toll Brothers funding this school!
"If I were an Ashburn Farm resident, I would be fighting for keeping Eagle Ridge students together at one school, that's for sure. Don't understand what the big deal is or what makes Stone Bridge so special."
Since you don't live in Ashburn Farm then you could not possibly understand why it is a big deal and why Stone Bridge is so special-So here is the reason: WE ARE A COMMUNITY! Our children play together, they interact with each other all throughout the neighborhood. We WALK to the store, the parks, our pools and THE HIGH SCHOOL! The Ashburn Farm community from a geographic standpoint is rather small. We have alot of houses but the area is small. We have trails connecting every part of the neighborhood- we ride our bikes all over the neighborhood. We have tunnels under Claiborne and Ashburn Farm Pkwy. When there is a community event most of us show up. Many of the residents go to Stone Bridge games even if they have no child there- some go because they have little ones who someday want to be a Bulldog or they are older and used to have a Bulldog. Stone Bridge is part of our community, I drive or walk past it EVERYDAY. It is not a regional school like alot of the Loudoun schools. The only thing we don't have is a middle school-we all can't fit into one because of all the other communities that sprang up around us. We went through the growing pains, we need stability. It has been 18 changes- and yes it is some of the same families. SO until you experience what the Farm has had to endure you cannot possibly understand this issue. So suppose that the large DN that surrounds Belmont was made to move to Harper Park to make room for all of Ashburn Farm- would you feel the same way? Why take some of the closest families out of a school and bus them to a far away community? This didn't happen with the middle school boundary and it should not happen with the high school boundary.
I don't know what the split is at Eagle Ridge is when it comes to which HS (Stone Bridge vs. Briar Woods). But why can't Belmont Ridge Middle School split students between Stone Bridge and Tuscarora??? I realize you would have 1.5 middle schools at Tuscarora, but with middle schools not equaling high schools (who's grand idea was that???) don't we already do this anyway???
Here is the real problem with the "feeder system", if you look at all of Adamo's "future" plans, it destroys the feeder concept. How.. well DN 12 is slated to move, they attend Belmont... it will be the only DN from Belmont to go to Briar Woods. DN 26 will go to Broad Run.. but they currently go to Eagle Ridge.. (thought the feed for Broad Run was Farmwell) In another plan... all of the Farm to Broad Run (except DN 13)and BRHS now has a split feed from Farmwell AND Eagle. These "future" plans are available on the School Board site. How is this magical feeder system working in the future? IT IS NOT! SO once again the feeder system only works if your neighborhood is not affected by a change. Mr. Stevens,how can you support this staff plan with the battle cry of feeders when ALL future plans created BY staff do not keep it intact? You cannot have it both ways. And, even with ALL (except DN 13) of the Farm out, Stone Bridge REMAINS over-crowded. Anyone from Lansdowne care to comment now? I am really curious how this feeder system works for the Farm?
From what I hear about the 2 DNs that are separated off in the staff plan from the contiguous blob of Stone Bridge attendance; those zones are next to be moved in order to resolve the slight split-feed that would result if they stayed at Stone Bridge. Whether you like it or not; at least it makes sense in the context of a pure feed of Eagle Ridge to Briar Woods.
I've lived in several of these communities including Ashburn Farm. Ashburn Farm is no "closer" to their neighbors geographically or philosophically than any of the other neighborhoods. Everybody has the biking/walking trails etc. And in all of the previous boundary debates that involved various parts of Ashburn Farm, they were at each other's throats rahter than the throats of surrounding communities.
The only communities that matter are the student communites. They are what we must maintain. The feeder system has this as it's mission. The students are together every day, all day. HOAs don't matter much at all.
It seems that the board gets this message and hope the end result of this mess confirms it no matter what happens to HOAs. Who cares if we split parents who aren't even at the schools?
why do you care about the feeder system? You are not at the school.
The board also gets the message that forcing kids to change high schools is not a good idea either. But your beloved feeder system does that. I wonder how you'd feel if you kids had to switch high schools their junior year.
If the Reed plan had been passed, everybody in Lansdowne with kids in the 8th grade at Belmont or 9th at SB now would have had their kids moved from Stone Bridge as Sophomores/Juniors to Tuscorora. Only instead of moving to another neighborhood school like Ashburn, they would have moved with only a few other kids to a new school where they didn't know anybody.
In the Ashburn case, the one-time move of the kids would have been to setup a feeder for all future kids, in the Lansdowne case, it would have been to forever destroy a feeder. Little different.
Ashburn better hope there is no karma, otherwise, they will be moved "together" to Tuscorora.
If the Reed plan had passed, the school board could have allowed ALL the kids from Lansdowne that had already started at Stone Bridge to finish at Stone Bridge. Under the staff, the AF kids can't because there is no room. Little different.
"From what I hear about the 2 DNs that are separated off in the staff plan from the contiguous blob of Stone Bridge attendance; those zones are next to be moved in order to resolve the slight split-feed that would result if they stayed at Stone Bridge. Whether you like it or not; at least it makes sense in the context of a pure feed of Eagle Ridge to Briar Woods."
The 2 "blobs" you speak of will go to BROAD RUN!
Ok, then explain DN 14- goes to Eagle and Stone Bridge, if you look at FUTURE plans that are posted in the School Board Docs site, they are to be moved but so does DN 12- they go to BELMONT, and they need to be moved because Stone Bridge will STILL be over-crowed.(Both of these DNs by the way are DIRECTLY across the street from Stone Bridge.) So NOW you will have only one small section of kids going to Belmont and then Briar Woods. Who gets the short end of the stick in all of this Ashburn Farm- and oh-- we will end up being in 3- yes THREE different high schools.(DN-13 remains at SB, guess because the school is in that DN) WHAT OTHER NEIGHBORHOOD IN LOUDOUN HAS A SPLIT, LET ALONE A 3 WAY ONE!!!
Is everyone aware that Eagle Ridge is a 3 way split between SB, BR and BW high schools? How does anyone plan to FIX that? Funny how the "feeder system" should only apply to Belmont- Stone Bridge. And over the course of all this juggling, my kid will be affected TWICE!
"Only instead of moving to another neighborhood school like Ashburn"
Why does everyone seem to think that Brambleton is Ashburn?Briar Woods is 6+ miles from my home. Yes, it has the zip code of Ashburn but is really is not Ashburn, kind of like Lansdowne is not really Leesburg.
"Unable to open schools as quickly as planned, officials said their only option to alleviate crowding is to shift boundaries. "That's going to require us to begin utilizing existing facilities much more efficiently," Adamo said"
This was quoted from the Washington Post extra, December 11, 2008, story titled: "Construction Cuts Prompt Changes"
Hummmm.... wonder what happened between Dec 11 and March 10?
If Lansdowne is "Leesburg" because of zip code; then Brambleton is "Ashburn" for the same reason. And in the Ashburn case, the neighborhoods are adjacent to one another.
Ashburn doesn't mind a Leesburg zipcode for their middle school, but even an Ashburn zipcode isn't good enough for their high school?
I agree about the Eagle Ridge situation. They should not be split 3 ways, they should all attend Briar Woods. And ER 9th graders should start moving this fall to avoid transitions later.
I wish all this were over. My kids have friends that will attend both SB and BW in a couple of years. I never liked this.
My kids could probably walk to SB. It's a long walk though and much safer if they ride the bus.
SB or BW; Either way is fine with me and with my kids. I have neighbors that feel the same way. And I have other neighbors who oppose the staff plan.
The loudest voices for all of these communites involved don't represent everybody. Often, they are just the ones with the most time on their hands. I'll be glad when it's over.
"If Lansdowne is "Leesburg" because of zip code; then Brambleton is "Ashburn" for the same reason. And in the Ashburn case, the neighborhoods are adjacent to one another."
haha, we dont' even SHARE a zip code with Brambleton!! It is not a neighborhood close to us! THEY go to Stone Hill Middle school. I have no reason to go there! I know only 1 person there and my kids know NO ONE! SO how exactly is this better?? Lansdowne is not next to Potomac Station?? Can you not walk to that neighborhood? I can't walk to Brambleton!
"I agree about the Eagle Ridge situation. They should not be split 3 ways, they should all attend Briar Woods. And ER 9th graders should start moving this fall to avoid transitions later."
And where do you propose that the Stone Hill kids go? They attend Briar Woods too-- should they move to Eagle Ridge too? This boundary situation has the potential to move THOUSANDS of kids all over if this "feeder system" is what is really wanted! I am not so sure that this arguement is not just for the benefit of keeping LD at Stone Bridge. Wonder if the same arguement will apply when Stone Bridge remains over-crowded and then someone else needs to go-- will LD still be crying feeders when it is THEIR neighborhood being split?
the only constant in the lives of the kids of Ashburn Farm has been the neighborhood they live in. Their "school community" keeps changing! So how can "school community" be a viewed as something beneficial for the children and their families of the Farm?
Mr. Stevens,
Could you please explain about how the boundaries for the High Schools now will include Broad Run?
I have a son that went to Elementary school at Cedar Lane, and this was a split feed to Farmwell and Eagle. He is now at Eagle Ridge. I am hearing that DN 26 might now be sent to Broad Run. Is there truth to this? Is Eagle Ridge going to become a triple split feed school? If there is truth to this, how is this at all fair? What about everyone's talk of one middle school feeding one high school? Now Eagle will feed 3 high schools???
One example of how the Farm kids really don't know the Village kids is their basketball league. My son plays in Two Ridges Basketball league, which is Belmont Ridge and Eagle Ridge. The kids in the Village play in the Farmwell basketball league. So there really is no interaction between the kids in the village and the kids in the Farm. So sending 1 DN out of the Farm to go to Broad Run would not at all be in the best interest of the students affected.
He would be sent to a school where he does not know anyone, except for a handful of kids that live in DN 26, and 1 DN from the Farm would not be with anyone else from the Farm.
Please tell me that the School Board is not seriously considering sending DN 26 to Broad Run????
Mr. Stevens,
I'd like to know why Sanders Corner elementary is in the Stone Bridge cluster, yet some kids that go there will go to Eagle Ridge, which is in the Briar Woods cluster. It seems very inconsistent to have kids go to ES in one cluster, have some of those same kids go to MS in two different clusters and then some of those same kids go to HS in two different clusters. Seems very inconsistent from a planning perspective.
Please tell me that the School Board is not seriously considering sending DN 26 to Broad Run????The School Board is not currently considering any boundary plans. We are waiting for the results of discussions with the Board of Supervisors about school locations in the Dulles North area before proceeding. The boundary process will begin again in the fall, and will likely include the Broad Run HS attendance area.
I'd like to know why Sanders Corner elementary is in the Stone Bridge cluster, yet some kids that go there will go to Eagle Ridge, which is in the Briar Woods cluster.This was a compromise passed before I joined the School Board. It was not the staff's proposal. I can not speculate about the prior Board's intentions.
I'd like to know why Sanders Corner elementary is in the Stone Bridge cluster, yet some kids that go there will go to Eagle Ridge, which is in the Briar Woods cluster.
Why WOULDN'T Sanders Corner Elementary be in the Stone Bridge Cluster??? Students who live across the street from Stone Bridge go to Sanders Corner!!! 3 years ago some students were sent from Sanders to Eagle Ridge MS to alleviate over crowding at Belmont Ridge MS. Although Sanders Corner students did not like this, Ashburn Farm doesn't have a middle school in their community and Landsdowne did, so that is what was done.
Now, those Sanders Corner kids who live closest to Stone Bridge should obviously go to Stone Bridge since it is within their community. Unfortunately, Lansdowne does not have a high school within their community so they should be the ones to alleviate the overcrowding of Stone Bridge.
"Please tell me that the School Board is not seriously considering sending DN 26 to Broad Run????"
Take a look at Adamo's future plan 1. It is on the Board Docs web-site- now this may change if a different plan is produced by staff for the HS boundaries. but... the intent is to send those 2 DNs to Broad Run.
Mr.Stevens,
You said, "I created matrices of the major proposals against all of the possible future homes, at the planning zone level. The staff plan was the only one that did not move any planning zones twice. I have no personal affinity or loyalty to any of the neighborhoods in question here."
Are you aware that DN35 was moved 3years ago during the middle school process, and the staff plan would move them again? The same students that were moved during their middle school years will be moved in the midst of their high school years as a result of this plan. When you analyze the newly revised staff plan, please consider the recent previous boundary changes as well as future ones. The current staff plan moves the SAME KIDS twice. I hope you will stay true to your statement and not vote for a plan that moves the same zone twice.
DN35 was also moved in 2004, from Eagle Ridge to Belmont Ridge. So in the span of 3 years, they were moved from Eagle Ridge to Belmont Ridge and back to Eagle Ridge.
Now this staff plan would move them again. If approved, this would be 3 times in 5-6 years.
Totally unacceptable!!!
Anybody happen to see Dr. Adamo's comments in the Ashburn Connection newspaper?
I find his comments very disrespectful and offensive. He says some parents are acting like hobos on the road all the time.
He also says that the "modernization" of HS6 was delayed by the school board and that it is now slated to open in 2012 and not next year. What the heck does that mean? I've never heard of any of this.
And this guy is supposed to be leading the planning commission? He needs to take a step back and realize who these schools are really for, the kids. He treats this whole boundary process as just moving numbers around to fit the capacities of the schools.
Had the opportunity to drive by the Tuscarora site today. What a beautiful location for a high school- take a look Lansdowne, you may just like it better! Distance wise, less than the distance from Stone Bridge to Briar Woods. Roads, safe. Just what is the problem? I really don't get it. Lansdowne is further away from Stone Bridge than the most distant home in Ashburn Farm. Really- feeder system? Can't work for Eagle Ridge or Stone Hill so why for Belmont? My only guess is one Leesburg doesn't want Lansdowne or 2- Lansdowne has a problem with going there.
I am still struggling to understand why it's okay to pick apart bits and pieces of Ashburn Farm to send to random schools while keeping all other communities together. Why are the rules not applying to the Farm? If we're going to go down this road, we need to seriously consider the implications. All the communities in DN (and the rest of the county) are going to be at risk of being split up among different high schools.
If the faulty thinking continues, we're going to end up with some of Ashburn Farm at Briar Woods, some at Stone Bridge and some at Broad Run. How does that make sense and how is that fair to the residents of Ashburn Farm?
I have learned through this whole process that it doesn't matter what is fair - nobody outside of Ashburn Farm cares that we have been split so many times. Just as long as it doesn't happen to them.
If you are not in Ashburn Farm, you care about 2 things: 1) the feeder system and 2) Lansdowne does not have to go through ANY school changes.
The comment about Sanders Corner becoming a split cluster was not the staff's proposal is wrong. When the staff recommendations came out 3 years ago it had DN35 moving back to Eagle Ridge. DN14 was added later.
It's disheartening what is being done to this school with it's small attendance area and it's tight knit community. Kids from DN35 and DN12 are both walkers and can be seen every afternoon playing together while their parents converse. To think after 5th grade these kids will never be in school together again is heartbreaking.
Right, all the planning commission cares about is the feeder system. They don't care that DN35 has been moved 2 times since 2004. Evidence being the staff's proposal moving them again in high school to fit the feeder system. That would be 3 times in 5 years.
I just don't understand all the talk of feeder systems being so beneficial, yet at the elementary school level, it doesn't apply. You've got elem schools split between clusters. Kids that start school together will not see each other in school ever again, unless of course, they live in DN35. In which case they may get to see each other for a year, then get moved, then get moved again to see each other for another year, and then get moved again. All for the benefit of the entire DN!!!
question-- the ONLY reason I hear as to WHY Lansdowne cannot go to Tuscarora is that is "breaks" the feeder system. So... since we have no real feeder system in Dulles North this arguement really can't hold water- what's fair is fair. So- what is the REAL reason that Lansdowne doesn't want to go to Tuscarora?? I really don't understand.
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