Loudoun County spends less money per student than eight out of the nine regional public school districts. Only Prince William County spends less.
I ask the same question that I did last week: Is this the extent to which Loudoun values public education? I don’t think it is. I think our budget has fallen out of step with our values as a community. Loudoun is a highly educated, high-achieving community with high expectations for its children’s future. We expect a lot from our school system. We expect the very best opportunities for our kids. Are we dedicating what is needed to give them those opportunities?
The Board of Supervisors sets the school system's overall budget each year. On Tuesday and Thursday, December 8th & 10th, the Board of Supervisors holds public input sessions on the budget, affording you the opportunity to speak directly to the Supervisors. Click here for details. In addition, there is a special email address that goes to all members of the Board of Supervisors and the School Board: loudounbudget@loudoun.gov.
There are many important services for the Supervisors to consider, not just education. Theirs is a difficult job with many voices calling for maximum funding and many voices calling for lower taxes. They must find a path somewhere in the middle, and along that path they will be asking themselves: Should Loudoun be next to last for education funding? They already know what I think. Let them hear the answer from you.
(Washington Area Boards of Education FY2010 Guide)
My house's value has fallen 20% this year alone and yet I am paying the same in real estate taxes from the year before. If you can't make that work, then tough. The answer is not to always just ask for more. Sometimes you have to make what you have work. I have to make my family's one income stretch, why shouldn't the schools?
ReplyDeletePerhaps we need an attitude adjustment-- instead of complaining about how little we invest in our children, how about we praise the high value we're getting? We pay less than neighboring jurisdictions and get comparable results?
Maybe we should be thankful for what we have. Isn't what we teach the kids, anyway?
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ReplyDeleteI'm not sure the measure of a school system is how much money it spends. Performance-wise, how does Loudoun stack up against these other jurisdictions that are spending more money?
ReplyDeleteI do believe that teachers (in general) are not paid in accordance to what they contribute to our communities and our society at large. If we can afford it, we should pay our teachers more. But we also live in a county where we elected officials who approved development as far as the eye can see. Many of our neighboring counties are not faced with building dozens of schools in the next few years. And while Loudoun is allegedly one of the wealthiest counties in the nation, we also don't have much in the way of a commercial tax base. The tax burden falls almost entirely on residents and is based not on income but on the current value of one's house (which, if you bought your house awhile ago, may not bear any relationship to your income).
John,
ReplyDeleteNot sure where you're getting your voodoo numbers. I read last week in some article that Loudoun's per student was around $12K and I highly doubt some of those other school systems are paying that kind of money per student, perhaps there is an adjustment for low income kids or something in alexandria/arlington? And if you compare our scores against the other counties, then we must be doing something right for that kind of money since it seems like Loudoun schools are at or near the top.
Oh, and I paid more last year on taxes because my land value went up 80K(talk about voodoo math) and forked over $200 for parking fees, $100 for an activity fee and $258 for 3 AP tests, so you're barking up the wrong tree if you're trying to prove something by comparing Loudoun to the other counties.
Mr. Stevens, I cannot wait to vote you out of office. Come to think of it, why do we need a school board at all?
ReplyDeleteIf you want talk truth, instead of lies and statistics, lets looks at how Loudoun ranks in things like comparative success criteria. There is a good blog article at http://ow.ly/JSD2 that shows that there is little correlation with teacher's salaries or cost per student and successful student outcomes. If was going to pay my teachers, I would pay them the national average plus a cost of living offset.
@Devinhedge Thanks for your contribution (I. It's irked me for years that local politicians point to $/head as an indication of anything.
ReplyDelete@John Stevens DC public schools pay an enormous amount per student. How's their value?
I fully understand the tough economic times. I live and work in Loudoun--I feel the pain. With that said, I am willing to invest appropriately in our growing school system. Next year our school system will be faced with working to effectively educate the students we currently serve, AND the 3000+ that will join LCPS next fall.
ReplyDeletePlease be aware of this fact: If the Supervisors allocate a flat funding level (same amount of funds as received this current year) the impact of Tier 2 and 3 reductions from last year's budget process will be realized. Also, an additional $15 million dollars will have to be cut from the school budget. Here are some examples of those deep cuts: 670.7 positions lost (grade 1-5 teaching assistants, special education content teachers, Art, Music and PE teachers, reading specialists, Guidance Counselors and other employees who directly impact our children each day). With this in mind, I ask you to take a moment and recall your years in school. Didn’t at least one of those educators I mentioned above have a positive impact in your life?
With such deep reductions class sizes will increase and the field trip and substitute budget will be reduced.
Please do not be fooled to believe that cuts of these kinds will not be felt directly in the classroom. Our children, your children will be impacted.
I too live in Loudoun and my taxes have increased and my home is not worth what I paid for it. But when it come to your children, since I don't have any in the school system, I am willing to deal with what I have and work with that. Why does it seem that I care more for your children then you do. Talk about values???
ReplyDeleteThe roll-out has begun, and more to come tonight at the budget hearings. Don't forget, Hatrick said any more budget reductions will "dismantle" the school system. Start the panic now!
ReplyDeleteI have to laugh when I see this graph because it is soooooo irrelevant. To try and make a case that an outer county like Loudoun should spend more to keep up with the urban localities is idiotic. Arlington, for example, has a huge commercial tax base, fewer children per household, a higher percentage of special ed and ESOL students, and a higher cost of operations in an urban setting. They CAN spend that much with only an 87 cent tax rate! Even Fairfax has many urban areas inside the beltway. 8th out of 9 is not an alarming statistic.
ReplyDeletejustthefacts - few of the positions you say that will be cut are necessary for the education of our children. They should never have been hired in the first place. You could have added "elementary school guidance counselors" to the list of wasteful positions.
ReplyDeleteAs for the salaries that teachers are paid, how many other jobs do you know of where you get two months off in the summer, you get off every holiday in existence, and a guaranteed job where it's almost impossible to be fired for non-performance?
Okay, nice graph....but what about the rest of the towns and counties around Loudoun. All of those listed are to the east which doesn't allow anyone to make any valid comparisons for Loudoun. The graph is irrelevant to the discussion.
ReplyDeleteTom the Red--clearly you have no idea what our schools are required to provide. REQUIRED--based on the state standards of quality. Among those includes guidance counselors and special education teachers. To say that couselors are wasteful indicates how out of touch you are with today's schools and society. Tell the child who is dealing with arguing, divorcing parents and needs someone to express feelings of fear and isolation that the time he/she has spent with the counselor confiding these scary feelings has been wasted.
ReplyDeleteEven though the issue of days off has been discussed ad nauseum, you must need help to remember that teachers GET NO COMPENSATION for these days. Now I ask you, what other professions--that required employees to stay on top of current research, continue taking courses, and get recertified on a regular basis-- provide less than a week of paid vacation time.
Just the Facts spoke of the FACTS. Try spending a few hours in a public school and educate yourself.
Mr. Smith gives Timmy $5 more per week in allowance than you give me. He obviously loves Timmy more than you love me.
ReplyDeleteThis is such a ridiculous post, John.
Since you are suggesting that per-student funding has a direct relationship to quality of education, I challenge you to prove it. Plot some measure of student performance. How about SAT scores or continuing education rates?
Look at page 40 of the WABE report and show me the correlation.
While you're at it, how about using coming up with a more honest chart. Set the baseline to zero like WABE did, and keep it level.
Oh yeah, jaelyn, one week vacation!!!! How about that summer vaca???? Quit whining. You are well paid with excellent benefits for the time you work. You chose this profession knowing the compensation and time commitment parameters.
ReplyDeleteLI--why are you so nasty? Try taking off your blinders and rereading what I posted. I was not whining or complaining. I was stating FACTS! Did I say I didn't think it was enough? Did I say I wanted more? Now that would have been whining.
ReplyDeleteSummer vacation? That is misleading, too. Yes, we don't have our usual school routine for 8weeks--but it is not necessarily a VACATION! Since we are required to be recertified, we need to take classes--which we pay for ourselves, and complete all the course work that is required. And, as you know, our VACATION is not a paid vacation like most other professions provide.
So if you need to call me a whiner, feel free. I for one will keep to myself what I call you.
I'm sure I've been called worse! I find the Hatrick machine to be despicable in its tactics, and I will continue to be a thorn in its side. The quicker you rank and file teachers hop on board and point out all the systemic problems, the quicker we will get new leadership and a new direction, focused more on the basics and less on fancy whiteboards and gleaming admin buildings.
ReplyDeleteLoudoun Insider you are so mislead I will have to call in search and rescue for you. Since you apparently are not a teacher let me help through some rough spots. Summer vacation is a good place to start…. I don’t know of many teachers who are not working a second job during that time because of the limited compensation in the form of salary that we are given. Additionally you idea of the summer is a bit mystifying. School is out June 20 and we return anywhere from Aug 16th to the 20th. A rather short summer. But none the less during that time we have to take classes, prepare lessons, and purchase items with our money for your children because the budget continues to be cut. You are correct we did choose this profession because once upon a time educators were respected. We were treated as professionals and we were paid an honest wage for a very difficult job. Now we are looked upon as money grabbing whiners. As for the fancy white boards and technology, please forgive us for trying to enable your children to be productive members of the 21st century. And yet each year we have to beg, not for ourselves, but for YOUR children to get the quality education that they deserve. What you think children deserve is evident in your correspondence.
ReplyDeleteYou are misled yourself, since I have no children. This is one of the reasons I despise waste in the schools so much, and LCPS has indeed wasted a lot of my hard earned tax dollars, especially on bogus land deals. So I especially resent being asked to pay more to fund a hierarchy that has no respect for my money. You knew the parameters of this job when you took it, stop complaining so much. And no one in the private sector is getting raises or increases in any type of beneift either, and nearly all are being cut. I am asking nothing less from private sector employees. What is good for those who pay your salaries is good for you as well. Well, of course it isn't very good, but it's simply the way things have to be at this time in this economy.
ReplyDeleteChildren......Bah Humbug!
ReplyDeleteIts a good thing you did not reproduce, Loudoun Insider.
Yeah, this county doesn't need any more inquisitive minds who question the powers that be! Feel free to produce more lemmings. And don't forget to kiss Hatrick after you bow down to him.
ReplyDeleteThese same people who balk at increases in teacher salaries are the same people who will be the first in line to complain when little Susie can't get into a decent college or gets poor scores on her SOL, SAT and other standardized testing because of sub-standard teachers that we will have when the good ones jump ship. Our kids live in a competitive world and we need to keep up. We need the best of the best. Are there things we can cut-- Absolutely. I would start with the FLES and SAMS programs. I would eliminate the Gifted program in all but the poorest areas, why, because the richer kids have parents who can afford to enrich them at home. They don't need to waste a day in school building robots out of cardboard boxes. How many administrators and supervisiors do we really need. And do we need 2 PE teachers in the elementary schools, could we not have a PE teacher and a teaching assistant? Same with music. I am not in favor of eliminating these things-- kids need those activities to obtain a well rounded education. Cutting school based staff is just something that should be a LAST resort. Special education students are required BY LAW to have their coverage by special education teachers or assistants. This cannot be done by the general education teacher. These kids are not always obvious to an outsider looking in. They are normal everday kids, maybe your neighbors, who learn in different ways and are entitled by law to a free and appropriate education. Guidance counselors perform many tasks in school everyday- they handle everything from kids who are at risk for self-destructive behaviors to disagreements between classmates. They spend time teaching kids conflict resolution and problem solving. They teach them to advocate for themselves. Yes, we need to work hard to make every dollar count but we need to start at the TOP and work down, not the other way around. Teachers have kids, mortgages, car payments and the like. They are spending their own money at times for the benefit of YOUR kids. They spend countless hours planning and preparing to teach YOUR kids. They take time from their own families for the benefit of YOUR kids. They are not asking to be rich- just some equity. Maybe the teachers should just work their contracted hours-- but don't be surprised or complain when you get what you pay for.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous, December 9, 2009 7:27 PM
ReplyDeleteMany of your points are well-taken, but I'm interested in why you think that it's bad to eliminate music and art, but you are willing to throw the 40 SEARCH teachers (gifted K-3) under the proverbial bus. These are teachers who serve EVERY child in EVERY classroom. They live in Loudoun, they pay taxes. Do you really think it will help the local economy to put their mortgages at risk of foreclosure by "eliminating" them? When you say it's okay to "eliminate" programs, you are talking about real people who are residents and taxpayers. "Eliminate" those teachers and you just add to Loudoun County's woes.
Anon@2:42, If anyone has been misled it is because they believe what people like you write. The WABE report indicates an LCPS teacher contract is for 194 working days a year at 7hrs a day. Correct me if I am wrong, but don't they get 3 days of personal leave and 10 days of sick leave on top of that? That would total only 181 working days a year. That's almost a third of the year off. It is a benefit no other profession I know of offers.
ReplyDeleteTeachers are only paid for the days they work, not in the summer.yea they get personal and sick days but can't use them because there is no money to pay a sub! Once the sub money is gone, it means shifting kids to other classrooms if a teacher is sick. So rather than do that the teacher does not take the time off. Summer is spent taking classes- paid for by the teacher, preparing for the next year, adjusting the curriculum for additions that have come up, etc, etc, etc,
ReplyDeleteRuth, those 40 or whatever gifted teachers are certified teachers and can teach in a regular classroom. Eliminate the program, not the teachers.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous 4:03 PM: If class sizes are being increased and over 600 full-time positions are going to be cut (the current estimate), into which classrooms, exactly, will those teachers be placed?
ReplyDeleteMy granddaughter started kindergarten this year. She has SEARCH, library, and computer lab this year, and as a first grader next year, she should have SEARCH, library, computer lab, art, music, and PE. She only gets one chance to have a wonderful first grade year, possibly the most important year of her whole school career. I WANT to pay more taxes if that's what it takes to make sure she has a good first grade year. And you should want it, too. My son moved to Loudoun County 5 years ago after a lot of research specifically because of the excellent school system. If you want to see your real estate value really go down, just make sure the school system is sub-standard. Young, two-income, upwardly mobile families will look elsewhere when choosing a home. It benefits ALL of us to have excellent schools and libraries, good hospitals, adequate police and fire services, and comprehensive social services. You get what you pay for, and I'm willing to pay for a top-notch county.
So Ruth, what do you propose we do cut? Special Education, teaching assistants, Close schools?? Something has to go, we need to have certain things going on in the schools the state mandates that- but not the fluff. Increase taxes is your answer, but who can afford those taxes?? I certainly can't and that tax increase won't guarantee that the money will go to the schools as everyone has their hand in the pot. Every extra dollar that the school system gets needs to go to more schools so that your granddaughter can have a fabulous experience in first grade without having 30 kids in the classroom all wanting the lone teachers attention. Times are tough and we can't have everything we want when we want it. Overcrowding is real and needs to be fixed so that our school system does not fall short of expectations. A high standard of education must be maintained and in order to have that cuts need to be made. I do advocate that before ANY program cut is made that cuts begin at the administration end, take a look at that admin building and who is working there first. Maybe Dr. Hatrick needs a pay cut, Dr. Adamo, maybe we can get a lower paid person to do whatever job he does (and maybe someone who can do it better)
ReplyDeleteI have high school children- and I want them to have the best experience that they can have and get the education that is needed to get them into college. But is is increasingly difficult to get the classes they want and to have the class size they need because of the overcrowding. If you want your granddaughter to have a good secondary experience, things need to happen now or she won't have a seat in any high school and will have substandard teachers to boot.
...and yet the School Board authorizes $84K per year for 3 years to bus Lansdowne students to SBHS while other communities who choose not to change schools have to drive their kids because no bus is offered. If the budget is tight, it's tight in all circumstances. Stop loosening the purse strings to cater to one community that is experiencing their first boundary change.
ReplyDeleteWe need to reprioritize the dollars we are spending on education. The four small elementary schools have to be closed. Keeping them open is a huge waste of money!
ReplyDeleteThe county's budget shortfall is growing, and we can keep tax rates down by closing these schools.
Why should the whole school system suffer cutbacks when cutting these schools could be a significant part of solving the budget mess.
While I agree with your post that the small schools should be closed, it isn't the magic bullet that people think it is. Cutting small schools will only save $2-3 millions in a $732 million budget. While it helps, it doesn’t come close to solving the overall budget problem. The potential cuts being proposed by the BOS are in the range of $70 to $90 million. What everyone is going to have to understand is that the magnitude of the cuts to the school board budget are going to be so dramatic that the school system isn’t going to look anything like it does today.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately people are not familiar with the budget and continue to propose simple solutions that will not solve the funding short fall. This isn’t a criticism, as people just don’t have the time to spend looking at the budget or understand the enormity of the problem. The other issue is that everyone is proposing cutting programs that do not impact them without understanding what those cuts will do to the overall quality of education or that things that they propose to cut are mandated by either state of federal law.
The BOS continues to advertise the school system as the “Crown Jewel” of county services to attract business. Unfortunately after this budget the crown will be tarnished!