Comments on Our Loudoun Schools: Schools and Holidays

I find it disturbing that wikipedia was used at th...

2008-11-24T11:58:00.000-05:00

I find it disturbing that wikipedia was used at the basic background research for this blog. If I felt like it, I could go and add or take away to any part of wikipedia. I could add words in the middle of Jefferson's quotes. Wikipedia is not a grounded source of information, although it does have many interesting facts double check them serveral places before counting them as fact. If you don't believe me, just go try and edit it yourself, you can create a whole new history.

I'm sorry but as a Christian I believe I have as m...

2008-11-24T11:50:00.000-05:00

I'm sorry but as a Christian I believe I have as much right to express my views as the next person, and I do enjoy hearing the views of the next person. I do not expect everyone to believe what I do but I would hope with freedom of speech and religion. The students say the pledge of alliegence to help them show pride for the nation, and the historic background of our nation is that our forefathers built the nation "under one god" and that was important to them. This is historic and history, doesn't mean that everyone has to believe in the one god, but I hope that as they sit in our classrooms they are one nation and proud of it. Several times 'spring break' has not coincided with Easter and the result of that was absenses, which is why the school returned to the old way. If you don't believe me look up 20yrs of Loudoun County's spring break history. As far as winter break being at Christmas, well, Christmas happens to be a week before the New Year, so isn't that conveinent. Also I worked with all Muslim's last Christmas, and I bit my tongue because I assumed (because of what public school tells us) they would be offended by my wishing them Merry Christmas, but the truth is they celebrated more lavishly then I did. Infact I was stuck working because they all wanted the day to spend with thier family. Christmas is a commercial holiday, celebrated by almost all religions, no just christmas. As far as the Nativity on the court house lawn, yes it's thier, it is historic. I realize that the country is more diverse but should those thing of tradition be ignored because of new ones? When we started celebrating Martin Luther King Jr's Birthday should we have stopped celebrating George Washington's because Washington owned slaved and he might be offensive. No one is forcing anyone to worship or believe in those things about our nation that reflect God. But historically, the men that formed our country said it was under one God, because they all believed in that one God. Is it really right to take those words out, or stop teaching why they are there? Please add new traditions, teach about Muslim religion, Budism, Judism, Athism, Wiccan, teach that this country is full of different people and different beliefs and each and everyone is to be respected. Teach that early settlers came to the America's so that they did not have to worship in hiding, so that they could have thier own beliefs and then encourage the students to believe openly, whatever they believe in. I grew up in a changing Loudoun County public school, I was once told school was an inappropriate place to read my bible, and from now on to leave it at home, that was 10 years ago. I was forcing no one to read it with me, I was reading on my own in study hall, I did argue and never brought it back. As long as my belief does not infringe on the right of another, then there should be no problem. Respect all religion equally and make everyone feel special for having thier own beliefs.

When you hear someone bemoan the assault on Christ...

2008-01-02T10:37:00.000-05:00

When you hear someone bemoan the assault on Christianity in public schools, you're hearing the wailing of a privileged class as its presumed birthright to power is revoked.

This is absolutely perfect. Great post, John.

Unfortunately, people who have always enjoyed special rights often do see that circumstance as a birthright, and honestly see the equal consideration of others as "special rights." It's nearly impossible to have empathy for people who think their majority-privileged status is a birthright, but you've explained the situation about as clearly as anyone could have.

It could be that the particular case Barbara talks about does have merit; there have been many cases in which school personnel err on the side of too much restriction out of fear (witness the prejudice-based nonsense over school plays created by activists two years ago).

It's not always clear where the line is, which is why the links you've provided are so helpful. I don't think there's a problem with allowing a child to express religious views in a project, if that's really all that happened. That's not the same thing as endorsement of religion by the school. Overreacting to things like that only gives ammunition to activists whose objective is to keep alive a fictional "war on Christmas" for political reasons. One mistake by an overly cautious teacher then gets embellished into a full-blown conspiracy, and a single case with merit is buried in an avalanche of deliberately instigated ones with no merit. It's probably not reasonable to expect most people to be able to see through this and know the difference.

Btw - is there a Nativity scene on our Courthouse lawn, or did I hallucinate that?

Stevens said: "Every student pledges allegiance to...

2008-01-02T04:46:00.000-05:00

Stevens said: "Every student pledges allegiance to "one nation, under God" every morning"

Why don't you change the curriculum so that the pledge is done in an assembly room as an optional exercise so EVERY KID doesn't have to participate.

Well, I would say that all Virginia K-12 students ...

2007-12-29T00:21:00.000-05:00

Well, I would say that all Virginia K-12 students have to put up with and be subjected to PLENTY of stuff any one of them does not believe in. The cult of multiculturalism, for one. What a mess that has made our public education system. Kwanzaa is a disaster, started by a criminal back in the 1960s. There is much to expand here. John, please keep going. Lots of issues and beliefs get a pass from this type of scrutiny, because nobody bothers to call them "religions." They are.

I don't think Barbara was insulting Kwanzaa, she w...

2007-12-28T14:07:00.000-05:00

I don't think Barbara was insulting Kwanzaa, she was only saying it isn't a religous holiday. And she's right.
http://www.history.com/minisites/kwanzaa

John, Barbara's claims do have merit.I was directl...

2007-12-28T11:14:00.000-05:00

John, Barbara's claims do have merit.I was directly involved with this case and contacted Ned Waterhouse, our deputy superintendent along with the attorney for Loudoun schools. You see our sons wanted to do a craft which had to do with the Christmas holiday, which we celebrate as the birth of Christ and they were told no. However, a mennorah craft was allowed, which by the way was fine with me. A parent was allowed to come in and discuss his Muslim faith last year along with a Jewish man and his faith. I have absolutely no problem with this, but when my child wants to express his faith he was told no. After the principal spoke with the attorney and was assured that this was leagl he was allowed to share. WE should not discriminate against Christians either and because we are so afraid of special interest groups who have been so outspoken our rights as individuals to express our faith as Christians has been taken in public schools whether you beleive it or not. It frightens me that you are the representative for the school board where we lived for 14 years in Cascades and still have friends who are affected by your decisions and opinions.

Christmas has secular origins, which most Christia...

2007-12-28T09:19:00.000-05:00

Christmas has secular origins, which most Christians (and I was raised one though am now "un-churched") refuse to acknowledge. The church co-opted the pre-Christian winter solstice to a) tamp down the festivities which were getting out of hand and b) convert more people.

Even many biblical scholars admit that no one is really sure when Christ was born but that December 25 probably wasn't the date.

My husband and I were both raised Christians but no longer attend church. We do realize that our son needs some understanding of Christianity since it is so prevalent in our society. But honestly, when you try to explain Christmas and Easter from a neutral standpoint, it's really hard to come up with an explanation that connects religion with the way we actually celebrate these holidays (Easter bunnies? Chocolate?) and still makes any sense.

While I agree with you -- and Thomas Jefferson -- ...

2007-12-27T21:25:00.000-05:00

While I agree with you -- and Thomas Jefferson -- in principle and spirit, you need to realize that Halloween is All Hallows Eve, precursor to All Saints Day. It does have a Christian origin.

Wow - some good ol' debating going on here...after...

2007-12-27T18:32:00.000-05:00

Wow - some good ol' debating going on here...after poking around Mainstream Loudoun's site a bit (after reading Barbara's response), an interesting find - they said all schools were provided a poster (back in 2002?) with the original motto "E pluribus unum" on it (looks like a nice poster): I wonder if any of those were ever accepted and posted?

I am so glad that Barbara pointed us towards your ...

2007-12-27T11:14:00.000-05:00

I am so glad that Barbara pointed us towards your blog on her blog. It is really refreshing to see your reasoned response to her critique. I loved your examples and agree with you fully on this.

As an atheist, I really don't get why Christians seem to enjoy acting like marginalized victims when I have to acknowledge their god and their holidays and their viewpoint wherever I go.

Thanks for the clear-headed rebuttal. Barbara didn't seem to get the same things from it that I did, but I appreciated it all the same.

We should have several hours of silence to contemp...

2007-12-27T10:46:00.000-05:00

We should have several hours of silence to contemplate the state of the world and its divisive issues (perhaps with some guided self-study to keep wandering minds occupied).

I purposefully didn't mention the minute of silenc...

2007-12-25T13:54:00.000-05:00

I purposefully didn't mention the minute of silence. I know that it was pushed by people who were trying to get as close as possible to a minute of prayer, but in my judgment it passes constitutional muster as a non-theistic practice and I don't have any objection to it.

You forgot the daily minute of silence.

2007-12-25T13:27:00.000-05:00

You forgot the daily minute of silence.